Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Join Reverend Ben Cooper from Elim Swanley on a spiritual journey through life's profound questions, offering wisdom, insight, and a touch of humour in every episode. "Embarking on a soul-enriching voyage through the Bible's timeless wisdom and the Christian journey, with a diverse array of inspiring guests, Join us as we explore faith, life, and hope.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
#Christian Straight Talk - (#12 Courage) To walk in the fire
Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck talk about the next episode in the series of Courage and this week it's to walk in the Fire.
Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us. We're back. It's #Christian straight talk. It's Simon pinchbeck. And it's myself. Good morning world, wherever you are today. We are back in the arena. We're back on the mics. We hope and pray that you are well. And you've had a good Christmas break is our first time back back podcast. And it's good to be with a good friend, Simon this morning, and we're looking at an interesting subject this morning encouraged to walk in the fire Simon, good morning.
Simon Pinchbeck:Good morning, Ben. It's great to be back on the mics. It's great to be back with you, brother. Man. Yes, the coffee is good. And the conversation will be even better. And we're gonna just put it before the law this morning. But it's true. It's the courage to walk in a foreign. You know, you may think that we've covered this in previous podcasts. But no, we haven't covered this, this Pacific, not walking in the fire, Ben, because there are times in our lives. Especially if you're a Christian. And obviously if you're not, but there are times Elijah, where God will ask us to walk in a fire to enter a fire to walk in a fire to stay in that fire. Which is a place of so uncomfortable that we don't really want to want to be there. We don't understand it sometimes why we're there. But we call out to God. Why God why have you put me in this place? But he has his reasons ben dont he.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's an interesting title in it. If you've got the courage to walk in a fire, people might be thinking what I can what a literal flames, no, as Simon just said, we're talking about life situations, they can feel so hot, they can feel almost burn in your sculpture in your certain things in your life. You think why? Why is this happening? Like, because obviously you're going to fire you're never going to come out of it. I know that's true. But some situations you feel like you're never going to be able to be retrieved or redeemed or saved from a situation where we've got
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, we may be in a job. It may be in a relationship. Yeah, maybe a certain situation or circumstance where he's asked you to walk in? That's right. Yeah. What we'd call a season or a period of time. Yeah. Thanks. It's not an easy, no, it's not easy. It's life in
Reverend Ben Cooper:this life. Life. You can portray it as a fire, can't you certain situations, it's not rosy. It's not like walking in a nice garden with flowers and roses. You know, life is a fire, there are certain situations that feel very hot, you feel very uncertain. And you can feel most blind walk in blind, but that's faith. So God is with us in every situation. So wherever you are today, you might feel that your life is representing a fire. And then there are many people out there that won't even capture and won't even grasp on this stuff that we talked about. Because you you you're almost you've got it all made up, sewn up and buttoned up. But there there'll be many out there that understand what we're talking about walking in fire is just that your gosh, there's trouble. There's travel, there's travel or the nest this trouble Lord smells a bit fiery today.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And you've been asked to walk in and but I think you made a great point there in what you said, right at the start of that conversation. You said, God will be with us. And and that's the truth. If he's asked you, yeah, walk in it. And he's not going to just go get on with it. Yeah, it's going to it's going to be with you. Yeah. And he's gonna watch over you. And one of the greatest scriptures to tell us that I think Ben is Isaiah 43. Two and it says this. He says, When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire. You shall not be burned.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What a scripture. I love the fact that we're talking about fire. But we need to keep explain very clearly, when we're talking about fire. We're talking about the trials of life that are impossible to be retrieved from. So it says, Simon has really got an interesting text here. Isaiah 43 Verse two, when you pass through the waters, what can happen in the waters I could drown? He says, I want you He said, I'll be when you pass through the rivers, the rivers, I can get washed away swept away. Look, you can see what it says but the one that we're bringing in song is brought to the table fire. Fire is really really frightening. Fire is frightening. It's frightening.
Simon Pinchbeck:And we'll we'll go on a little bit later in the podcast to talk about fire being used to refine you so to try right yeah, being used to just glancing Ben at the start of that chapter 43. He says this it says this, he says, But now this says The Lord does says that says the Lord who created you? He says oh Jacob and he who formed you I was wrong. fend for everything do. I have called you by your name your mind,
Reverend Ben Cooper:redemption.
Simon Pinchbeck:That was gone, you are mine, you're mine
Reverend Ben Cooper:redeemed. Now, redemption we know reverts back to the terminology in the slave trade, you have been bolt, you are owned, I own you, God is saying I own you. And if he owns you, which he does, you are redeemed. And you will walk through fire and you will come through. Now, that scripture that Simon read out Isaiah 43 to two parts and that text that you can, you can swim in water, you can swim in the river, you can, you can play about with them too. But with fire, you can't play with fire, you can't swim in it, you can't walk in it, you can't live through fire. So fire out of those three elements that someone read out. So we've got waters and we've got the rivers. Now you can swim through the river, you can swim in the sea. So the water and the rivers are a pretty bit of a soft touch. But with fire fire will take you out It takes no prisoners. So when God speaks about fire, he is taking it to another level level in the Scripture. He says I'll be with you in your fiery trials, I will be with you in your hardest point of your life. Because when you go into the fire you ain't you're never gonna come out. You're never gonna make it but you can swim in the rivers, you can swim in the sea. We never gonna make you a law though. You're never gonna do it about him. I Simon
Simon Pinchbeck:and there is a story in the Bible with a man really, really, I think shows just how much God is with you when you're in the fire. Yeah, and it's a story in Daniel Ben, you want to tell us that's Daniel
Reverend Ben Cooper:chapter fraleigh. If you've got your Bibles that turned to Daniel chapter three, is the story about King Nebuchadnezzar in his three young Jewish fellows Daniel chapter three and it's a really interesting read the best to read the entire chapter. But if he was to reference certain parts of that text is about me Shaq, shamrock and Bendigo and the king what just threw them in the fire simply because they wouldn't bow down and worship his idol they wouldn't worship him and all the stuff that goes along with idolatrous worship. But the lead up to that that the say traps the priests, everybody wanted to capture these guys out is really interesting. But basically that the simple part of the text is that they was thrown into a fiery furnace. And the king said putting them in now they were bound with their coats with their trousers they were bound with ropes so they know the scripture it says there was thrown in but a lot of fine art work and a lot of preachers and teachers make it sound like that they walked in when actually there was thrown into the fiery furnace
Simon Pinchbeck:and that time yeah, that King yes was like a god one he was he was he was like, you know, he was the daddy and whatever he said what was it no a mess with no one messed with him. And so these guys at Goddard asked these guys yeah, not to worship him not to bow down to him yet to but to most continue worship had been the God they knew we choose our God. And it says in the scripture that he got the furnaces heat it up to about seven times
Reverend Ben Cooper:seven interesting number though he chose a godly number seven, but the people who put them in there died and they died. So the reason they got thrown into this now we got remember, they were thrown in, they thrown in. So even the the being thrown into the fiery furnace, they wasn't led in, they were thrown into. And what the reason they were thrown into it is because the priests and the governors and everybody said they will not serve your gods or worship your golden image. And then these three young men come up in a line in Daniel chapter three, verse 17, our God is able to deliver us from your hands. Now, when you look at the kings of old, as Simon said, those kings their word was final. They didn't have speeches written for him. They didn't have anything prepared for them. They were king. So whatever the king said, it happened not like the monarchy that we got floating around around the world today. Very different scenario. So this king was a tyrant. He was the final word. So when you look at this story for these for young men, the courage that they had to actually say, Our God is able, unbelievable. How God is able Simon core, you know, just to say it to that crazy King,
Simon Pinchbeck:and they knew what was gonna happen, didn't they? They know they trusted in Yeah, their God, our God. Yeah. And what happened then?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Simply, they walk around the fire. The king said, Hang on a minute. I thought there was three in that fire. But as he looked over the edge, he said I see four walking around, and one that looks like the Son of God. Now that this is really interesting, great scripture, because there are two sides of this that we're talking about, for the King to actually say, in verse 25, he says, I see four men loose. That's what he says. He says, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire. The form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Now, when you think about that, theologically, this king was an absolute tyrant. How did he know that that was the Son of God, simply because when a human being sees the Son of God, automatically, whatever faith you're from whatever culture you're from, you know that the God of Israel is real. So this man has come from a different culture. Now, when he says the Son of God, obviously, we know he's referring to Christ. But this is pre cross. Yeah. So this is really deep stuff, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Because this is beyond beyond. Beyond beyond. We hold this for hours and days,
Simon Pinchbeck:probably a little bit deeper than we want to go this morning. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is able, it's amazing what they said, Our God is able, and they was walking around in the fire. Let's tell you this brothers and sisters, people across the world, wherever you are, you ain't slipped into this podcast by chance. God is walking with you today.
Simon Pinchbeck:And that's and that's the whole point. We're making our point that these three are walking in the fire. Yeah. And God is with them. God is with them in the fight. And they have been they walked out in that and not even a chart.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now. He says that in the Scripture, it says they there was no evidence of any fire, or they didn't even smell of smoke. No, but the soldiers and the ones that flew them in and got close proximity to the flames, they were burnt out. Now there'll be many people out there, even in the world of the church, that a go. That's just like a Jonah's story. The world didn't really exist. It's just an analogy. No, this happened, whatever the Bible says, whatever the story is, and whatever it comes, this is fact.
Simon Pinchbeck:And those three, you know, could quite easily have gone okay, or still worship God. But every now and again, will bow down to this. And that's what we do in the church he needs. I mean, it was exactly what
Reverend Ben Cooper:I saw, right? I'll just, I'll just go along with Pharaoh, I'll go along with Boris, I'll go along with them. In the suits ill go along with the government. I'll just bow down for a little while,
Simon Pinchbeck:I'll turn I'll look the other way. But as a result of that, yeah. Look what he goes on to say, Ben, in that bit of Scripture, it says, this is the king, this is the king. They said, Nebuchadnezzar spoke saying, bless it be the God ye should be. I mean, he's talking about the ease. He's the God before this, and all this. And he's got blessed to be the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who sent His angel and delivery servants who trusted in him, and they are prostrate the Kings word, and he yielded their bodies that they should serve no worship any god except their own God. And he goes on to say, and this is because this is the result of walking in the fire. And this is a result for them. But it's there's a result for us when we walk in, there's a domino effect. Exactly. There's something happens yeah, as a cause and effects or something happens. So yeah, he's gone. Then he said, Therefore, I make a decree that any people, nation or language which speaks anything amiss, against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego shall be cut into pieces. He didn't think about it. So I'm going to cut them into pieces. And the houses shall be made as a sheep, because there is no other God who can deliver like this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when you think about this text, for free young men that had faith to say, Our God is able what what happened at the end of this text, nations were saved, nation was saved because for young men now let's turn his back on the church. This nation is sliding down the tubes because the church has gone I'll just bow down and worship idols for a while. Come on, brothers and sisters. You know what I'm saying? I know we're punching a bit odd sometimes on these but you have to the church has bowed down to idol worship is engaged in King Nebuchadnezzar his dream is engaged in Boris's dream, it's the world this embrace the world, Pharaoh we've embraced. We've also embraced so many occultic activities. You've only got to look at the Jezebel spirit. You've only got to look at all this stuff. The church has engaged it. It has walked with it. And now we are Seeing the consequence, as I mentioned, a domino effect. So, so there this this story is very, very interesting, this biblical fact, because here we have three young men that was so faithful to the God of Israel. And through their faithfulness, the king changed. Even though he was still violent, he changed. He changed in an instant. And that affected that nation, and then people, and that was powerful. So when you reverse that, to what a lot of religion and what has happened across this nation over the last number of years, it has the reverse effect. It's completely so you bow
Simon Pinchbeck:down and embrace Yes, people that God's just gonna walk all over you, and
Reverend Ben Cooper:they're gonna do it. And that's what we say, now. That's what we've seen.
Simon Pinchbeck:We've seen it because the church has been gone. I'm not saying the church, but God has been pushed out of every baby, you know, in the states have even scrubbed the 10 commandments are everywhere. It's because they might offend somebody or whatever. But this is the word of God. And And you're exactly right. If we walk through the fire walking through the fire, yeah. And stay in it until God releases us. Yeah, they'll be an end result if there's another guy in the Old Testament and people out there, you know, lots of people I dismiss the Old Testament, I don't know. Yeah, they do. They say that, and they just cover it, oh, it's this that stories. But a god is the same yesterday, today and forever. And the moral code is the same. And there is amazing stuff in the Old Testament. Now, another story is Joseph. Joseph, his story starts in Genesis 37. It goes all the way through to the end of Genesis, which is chapter 50. So it's a big part big part. And this is a young man, Ben is a young man, for 13 years, he was walking in the fire,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it 13 years, he was in the thick of it. Now let's just let's just just open the envelope a little bit more what Simon has done there. So we could actually drop into Psalm 23. Even our walk through the valley of the shadow of death. Life is a fiery furnace. And whatever you're walking through at this moment, however bleak, it seems, let's just make a quick reference to something that's really important. God strengthens us to go through what he doesn't do, he doesn't eliminate the problem. But what he does, he strengthens you to go through. So shamrock me Shaq and Bendigo. They said, Our God is able so they went through whatever they had to go through. They knew that God was going to be with them. And we want to encourage you today, wherever you are, whoever you may be across the world today to never ever give up. Keep walking in your situation. Keep focused. Just say to yourself, make your lip say our God is able to God of Israel is able and the same with Joseph had to press and push through some dark situations and he was thrown into many situations part of his How are my gosh, he was in the story of Joseph Hey,
Simon Pinchbeck:you got thrown? How many was he a character? Yeah, bit of a carrot. But he got thrown into a well then he got sold into slavery
Reverend Ben Cooper:brothers were liars.
Simon Pinchbeck:He got thrown into a minor he was dead to his father. He got thrown into prison, didn't they? Because of that. And, and even when he it is something right in prison. Interpreters a dream. Yeah, I forgot about him. And he was left for a couple of years. Yeah, but what happened was when he came out Benny, because he interpreted the dream, he changed. He was a prime minister of all of Egypt. He was second most powerful man. Yeah, underneath the Pharaoh. So we have
Reverend Ben Cooper:suddenly gone from prison to thrown from prison. So your life might reflect at this moment, a prison environment locked down, tiring, week after week, moment after moment. Nobody's listening. You feel really locked away. But let me just say again, God is able. Keep going. Keep going,
Simon Pinchbeck:Ben. I love Psalm 66 Verse 12. It says this. He says you have caused men to ride over our heads. We went through the fire. We went through the water, but you bought us out to reach fulfillment.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. Hallelujah. That Wow.
Simon Pinchbeck:I love when we're putting when I'm just looking and we're putting this together. And the Lord drops things in and so we and we, it's like a treasure hunt. Finding these little finding these little treasures all over the place in the Bible is awesome.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's what it's about. But also God reveals it doesn't mean God reveals God He He opens his word up. As we study as we read as we move our lips, you know, the Bible makes it very clear. He says one thing in the gospel, he says, you've only got to open your mouth and I will fill it. So there is a five point on its own, you might be putting the arena at work, you might be putting the ringer at college university to wherever he is. And you've got to say something about your faith, the Scripture, the Holy Spirit will enable you and give you the revelation to speak. So never let fear hold your lips down. You know, never never be fearful of that because the same, the same, what we're talking about is fire. And we are using fire as a very easy way as an analogy as a picture of just life. We are living in a crazy nation, this nation of the UK is lost like we've never been lost before. The government's are all over the place. They're all things are happening in every department, the worse than UK scrambling or anything to try and get through a spiritual crisis. With a physical measure, we are in a spiritual crisis. And the only way out of this is to call on the God of Israel and to seek him enter and say what Misha shamrock and Bendigo said, Our God is a workout for
Simon Pinchbeck:Ben, you're exactly right. I love what you're saying and bring to the table this morning. And you know, we're going to ask anybody listen to this podcast out there. You know, have you got the courage to walk in the fire? Have you got the courage to walk in the fire to God opens a door a man use it for is that right? I love what he says in Zechariah 13 Nine, Bennett says I will bring 1/3 through the fire. I will I will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name and I will answer them. I will say this is my people. And each one will say the Lord is my God. The Lord is my God, man. That's just says exactly what we're saying here. You know, you're in the fire. Yeah, refined, and bent. If you just indulge me a little while I've got you know, when I was example, really and be great to have you got an example to accelerate the listeners, I'm sure you've got many, but one for me was you know, come out of the police force it and slipped into a bit of criminality that went pear shaped and I embrace a lot counter to five foot two holy trinity Brompton nice pitch, and but I've got no job. I've got nothing, no, nothing coming in no money. And at the time, my wife was the she was a manager of a team that sold soft drinks into news agents and grocery stores. Okay. And she said to me, I've got a position do you want it? I don't know where else to go. But what do I say? What do I do? What do I do? But don't forget, I was very proud man. You know, the police force out if you could have a pocket at one time that might be even more arrogant. Yeah. And all of a sudden, for two years, I'm driving around a little red Astra state car for I used to be used to SUVs and everything. Yeah. And I put them in this little red asterisk state car. I'm selling drinks, soft drinks into agents and grocery stores. I'm cleaning out I'm only nice cleaning out their chillers and put in put it all right. That for me was in the chunk. So that pride was recording off, we're falling off all Because don't forget, you know, my wife is now my boss. And she didn't know back it was you know, she didn't. She loved that. blesser and, and then for a year or so after that. I was sending biscuits into cash and carries, you know, greatly that stress alone, but wow. And during that time. For a couple of years, I've been going out with a group called tough talking frontline if I'm telling people what Jesus has done in my life. And then so the guy that was running tough till he had a security company. And he said to me one day said I'm looking for someone to run the man guard inside of the security business. He said, he said you fancy he said you're on commission only, you know, you just get money from the contracts that you Yeah, you pick up. He said you'll have to follow me around company said yeah, I'll give it a GM. And here's the deal, Ben. So it was about four years I've spent
Reverend Ben Cooper:in chillers and biscuits. Really crazy time for real. pulling teeth
Simon Pinchbeck:is the deal. What was the first security contract or got
Reverend Ben Cooper:not a biscuit factory?
Simon Pinchbeck:No, it was a security for our return a Brompton set I it was a security brand for the for the church or return a Brompton yeah First job that was first kind of Lord opened the store there. He taught me what? Yeah, he took me out out of that fire. He gave me that job. And the first time, you know, I went to church and I said, Look, you're getting on with the security and I was introduced the guy that ran it. And he said to me, we're looking for to change this security cow. I said, Well, I'm your man. And and from that point, we put security into a ritual that was my first contract and they looked after me for eight years in that business until we call me out of it, you know, but so what I'm saying is, there's a thorough stay in the fire,
Reverend Ben Cooper:staying in the fire, whatever situation you're in at this moment. And you know what, between our lives this story after story, their situation after situation when, when you when you when we talk about this word, fire, fire is real life situations. When, when if all you're doing is clean that chillers, all you're doing is delivering biscuits, all you're doing is stacking sandwiches, all you're doing is getting fish, all you're doing is just going through the treadmill of life. That is the training ground, what you need to go through it is a lonely time. And it's almost a time where you can almost actually hear nothing from God whatsoever is just silent. And that makes the physical job even harder. Because you know, that something is happening but what is happening in your physical life and around you. It seems to be like everything is being dropped away and you're being stripped back. But that's what God has to do. That is where we come into the world of surrender, and surrender.
Simon Pinchbeck:Look what it says in Proverbs 17 Nine all it says it says the refining pot is for silver. And the furnace is for gold. And the Lord tests the hearts
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow. You saw the AHA Have you got Have you got not the strength in your physical Have you got the faith to stay in your situation because God is working in your situation. He created that fire in me shack, Shamrock, shamrock and Abednego his furnace. He knew that flame he created that flame. He's the oxygen for that flame. He is everything. So that flame and that fire and that furnace was not out of God's eyesight or his plan. He was the one that was able to feel that fire because he created heaven and earth he creates the water. He creates the trees He is the God that spoke this world into being so when you analyze this situation, God knew that fire god created that fire. So God is in everything always. So whether we like it or not, it might look bad. It might look bleak, it might look dark, it might be hot, it might be tiring. It might be lonely, God knows that area that you are walking in because he's already in it it's already in is already in that Simon
Simon Pinchbeck:been one Peter one seven and you know we must keep going back to the Word of God don't use wrong forces
Reverend Ben Cooper:what we're saying is just the place to go
Simon Pinchbeck:and so he says this one Peter it's it says in his in this you are greatly rejoice though now for a little while if need be you have been grieved by various trials. Wow. Which is yeah, we're talking about that the gent genuine pneus of your faith being much more precious than gold at parishes through it is though these tested by fire may be found to praise honor and glory in the Revelation Jesus Christ and killer home having not having not seen you love so what they're saying when you're in that situation, Don't moan and groan Praise God. Praise the Lord because
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're being refined because you're being refined. There's something greater for you because you're being strengthened you could we could even bring up the text where it talks about the the potter's house I went down to the potter's house and I see the master working with the clay.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's a great textbook that see the right example
Reverend Ben Cooper:is you know that that great prophet, he went down to the potter's house and he went down and he watched the master work in the clay but that clay he had to form the clay he had to really squeeze to shape the clay because we know that clay. Clay has lots of imperfections in the clay. And the master the potter has to do a lot of work before it even looks beautiful. And I just love that text where well I just want to I just want to put it out there this morning. And as I always do, I say Lord, keep me in your hands because when I'm in the Masters hands I'm being worked on on being shaped. And when you look at that the master worked on the vessel. He spun the wheel and I love the fact that the master is spinning our wheels at this moment. He's spinning our life. He's He's shaping us he's Moldiness and what you got to remember is, if you if you can put yourself into the hands of the master, it's going to be painful, because as the master claim maker, he has to work that clay, he has to, they even punch it, they even throw it on the floor. They squeeze it, they beat it they, they're knocking all the imperfections out all the air
Simon Pinchbeck:bubbles coming out. It's got to be worked. It's got to be worked. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So life is painful. Because God is his character is building our character, endurance perseverance as a New Testament says, I've got to endure I've got to go through so character will come through faith will come through. And when I say endurance we're not referring to as in the physical which we're talking about, cuz we're on, we're on a spiritual walk. And then you go into Psalm 20. For even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for you are with me, your rod and your staff, they comfort me. And then for the process of life, you might get a breather point. And that is where we can take the text of Psalm 23. And You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies where I can rest in the battlefield. Yeah, I can rest in the battlefield because my God is able, Your God is able to speak with you It is, yeah, he is continuously with us. As Simon said, The Old Testament is as powerful as the know the note is that the new is as powerful as the old they go together. You cannot separate them. You reference one in the old you reference it in the know you find. You know, God's word is all the way through it. God is speaking for the oldest speaking fruit and know he said same yesterday, and today and forevermore, but your God is able.
Simon Pinchbeck:Every page is about Jesus. And every page is about Christ from Genesis to Revelation. So but there's another thing with this. Looking at this, Ben this walking through the fire. Yeah, with you've spoken about being in the fire. And we've there's some great scriptures saying we've been refined and then released into something. Yeah. And we've we've quoted that but the Apostle Paul comes at it from a slightly different angle from something different than several, you know. And it's in two Corinthians 12. seminar 10. He's talking about a thorn in the flesh, which he's got to live with. And this is the guy that that is the greatest writer of the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he certainly is. He certainly is. Have you got a phone today? Yeah, I've got from my phone. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:I've got one that keeps me in check. Yeah, definitely keeps me going back to him and calling out to him and, and keeps me really, as you say, keeps me on the part as
Reverend Ben Cooper:well. Yeah. And what an interesting prayer. What an interesting conversation this the greatest writer that walked the earth said, Take it from me three times. I pleaded. The key word there is pleading three pleaded with the Lord. Are you pleading with the Lord and and you can almost say, God ain't doing anything? No. He's his grace is sufficient.
Simon Pinchbeck:As he says, he says in red, in my in my Bible, it says, Unless I should be exalted above measure and by the abundance of the revelation has a thorn in the flesh was given to me a messenger from Satan to buffet me, lest I become exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might be might depart from me. And he said, This to me, My grace is sufficient for you, my favorites, this is sufficient for you. For my strength is made perfect in your willingness,
Reverend Ben Cooper:my strength is made perfect in my weakness. So
Simon Pinchbeck:my strength is made perfect in your strength, in your strength, in your, in your notoriety, in your name in knights all around the world know
Reverend Ben Cooper:My strength is made perfect in your humanity and your weakness, your attempt tation your fear, your trouble, your doubt, because that's what weakness is. My strength is made perfect, in the lesser of you. That a slight you that is that that blows your bubbles in your head, this blows your mind because when I am weak, then he is strong, so that you might feel really weak and where we are referring to, to the way of the world you might feel weak in your, in your faith, you might feel really down and you're like crying out to God. And just as the as Paul cried out, it says, I pleaded with the Lord three times take this away from me. But he didn't. He just said, My grace is sufficient for you. So you might have something that is so painful in your life. And it's never going to be removed. But what we got to remember is, God will strengthen you and God will strengthen me There might be stuff going around, that you just can't shake away, but God will keep you steadfast. It's about enduring,
Simon Pinchbeck:super enduring, because if he didn't, what would happen we become legends in our own lunchtime would be to go off and full of pride and saying, Oh, I could do this. Really, I don't really need you God anymore. Now I've made I mean, it's all me. So we all need that humility. We all need something to bring us back to the potter's wheel. As you quite rightly say, we all need something to bring us back to our face, not my will, but Your will be done. We all need that. Lord, give me the strength to get through this. I just think that guys have prayer. And you know, give me the strength to get through this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Have you got the courage to sit back and think bright, okay? This fire is going to be burning all the time I walk this earth. So the fiery trials of life are always going to be intense.
Simon Pinchbeck:I tell you what, if you're listening this out there, you know me and benefit in this today really?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Fire we're feeling it
Simon Pinchbeck:and this way, please, you know, listen to this stuff. Because this okay, you're free this so get your free this will give you the strength to get your fruit and, and I would ask you that if you if you're down if you're struggling then at this podcast near you and just play it again. Because the Lord is saying to you, my, my, My grace is sufficient, my undeserved favor is sufficient
Reverend Ben Cooper:for you over and over. And it's a it's continuous. It's a continuum. Yes, it totally. So you're walking through one fire, and you can know that you're almost walking into another. If we plan. If we plan. I'm always going to be in the fire because my God will never leave me nor forsake me. So whatever situation comes to the front door of home of life, of business of marriage, relationships, whatever the fiery trials of life are, my God is already gone before me. He is already with me. He is in me, he is around me. So I'm in a win win situation. So what I need to do is bring myself in line with with God's word and say, I'm more than a conqueror through Him who loves me. Nothing can separate me from the love of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, if you are a born again, believer and you've you've taken Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then the promises of the Lord, your son. Yeah, that's right. And I love I've written that exactly down on this note I made which was Deuteronomy 31. Eight was, you know, I will never leave you or forsake us. Exactly. Exactly what you said
Reverend Ben Cooper:with a science he's witnesses the scripture says He will never leave us He will never leave you any anyone on the other side of this might. He's with you in your trial. He's Do you know what he even lines trials up for us to strengthen things are lined up through
Simon Pinchbeck:that refinery,
Reverend Ben Cooper:refinery fire, like for me
Simon Pinchbeck:in that situation, in those grocery stores and those lumps of pride were getting knocked off. I'm getting I'm being ordered around by an A shop owner, bless the shop owners. Really, I'm not having a go but not coming from a point where you know, I didn't really pay attention to anybody unless you could do something for me. I was a real cold fish at that time. This is this has been knocked out. So it brings us back to so many wonderful promising scriptures don't it? You know, one that we've used many times on these on these latest podcasts is Proverbs 3567. So you know trusting the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding. Yeah, thank you for all your ways acknowledge Him, He will direct your path and if he directs your path if he lead you to it he's gonna pull you through it he's not like the enemy. You've just got to go there you go. chuck them in. chuck them in the fight as we've been that's totally as we've seen, we've shared track my track and
Reverend Ben Cooper:then they go Yeah, the enemy attack you in early we'll throw you
Simon Pinchbeck:in the enemy. Yeah, beat up the furnace even hotter than that because I'm there with them.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, um, you can heat it up as much you can. You can turn up the flames government, you can do what you want. Well, you can do whatever you want the enemy. You can fire it up as high as you want. But just remember, create the fire. Just remember who is the oxygen for the fire. The fire only exists because he created the oxygen for the oxygen. If there wasn't no oxygen if there weren't there would be no combust ability. So fire has been created by a god water has been everything has been created for him. So whatever you're walking in, he knows it because He created it. He's even lined up situations that you never thought you'd walk through. because it is character building and that is where we go perseverance I got to persevere because through the persevering comes the character comes the trust comes the faith comes the strength not in in yourself but the strength to go on following God no matter what.
Simon Pinchbeck:And you know what the sad thing has been the sad thing is that many people's give up just before
Reverend Ben Cooper:at the Bunsen burner stage. Yeah, a little glow a little tea light
Simon Pinchbeck:and and that because they'll go oh, I didn't sign up for that
Reverend Ben Cooper:the church didn't mention the hotness it'll be all it'll be all lovely. I'll be a millionaire this time next year Rodney. No postcode. I have a new according to them transatlantic preachers that I'm sending money to next. Next time this year, we'll be millionaires. Mr. Copeland, I'll be a millionaire.
Simon Pinchbeck:private jet and all that. Yeah. You know, when you You're exactly right. You know that. Some people give up right at that early stage. Some people go oh, Praise Lord Bosch Hang on. I'll go back behind the wall insurance. But others will endure for a time. But then oh, this is too much for me. Yeah. Because they try and do it in their own strip bin, or they pull out right before his door right before the fire, the door opens and and the Lord leads them out. And that's a sad, sad thing. Because it's very sad. The Lord has got a reason for you to be in that situation. In that circumstance in that relationship. And unless he calls you out of it, you have to stay in it. You have
Reverend Ben Cooper:to stay in that that is what we're talking about is insurance. So you bring in insurance into the arena. And if conversation, because you've got to endure the Bible speak very clearly, in many points about enduring. Don't extract yourself from the situation because God is in a situation. God is the one that that King spoke about. He said, I see for men loose. And not let's let's remember that they were tied up. They were bound, they were thrown in Toby says I see for men loose. That's a big theological push that King has spoken about their loose means to be free, who the sunset free is free, indeed, you're free in the fire, you're free in the river, you're free in the waters, you are free. Because when the sun sets free is free indeed. But you got to endure, enjoy the valley, enjoy the test, endure the trials, the tribulations, because there's many ways you can look at this, it got says very clearly that He is the vine dresser in the gardener. And he is stripping back. It is a very uncomfortable feeling to be stripped back of yourself. As Simon was saying he was being stripped back. God was stripping him back. He was cutting away the dead wood cutting away stuff that is that can't be used that is of the flesh totally.
Simon Pinchbeck:And, you know, why are we bringing this to the table in a form of a podcast? Because you know what? The Lord's put on our heart to bring this back to the table and the Lord wants you to get the most out of this Christian life. Yeah, that you can possibly can with him. That's right with Him, not without him with him. And he wants to use you anyone and he wants to use you for his own purposes. And that's why he major he had a plan for you right before probably even before that you was he was porn, you know? Yeah, he had a plan for you. And he wants to be with you and but the certain things in your life, maybe wants to clear out. And that's what walking the fire is all about. It's about being refined. And if the you've got something in there, like a thorn in the flesh that keeps you keep showing a potter's wheel, then praise the Lord for it. I praise keeping you in. Yeah. And he's keeping you in communication with your father. Yeah. And you're following Jesus, and he'll get you through all this stuff. Oh, God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Three times I pleaded with the Lord. He said, Yeah, take it away from me. How many times do we plead with God time and time and this
Simon Pinchbeck:is the apostle Paul, you know, this is this is that it's been through enormous trials and CIT raising the tie rod sees everything that stuff but it's something in his life that he wanted free of. But the Lord said no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that text in its own should give us encouragement to know that if this character had this issue, this situation that God just said My grace is sufficient. You're going to keep that my friend, but I'm going to strengthen you for Omar grace will will will carry you through my and I love that part a you know that part? He says My strength is made perfect in weakness and your weakness. Yeah. In your frailty, in your loneliness in your meekness in your tired body in your physical exhaustion?
Simon Pinchbeck:So what we're saying to anyone out there today is if you feel tired if you feel if you feel dejected, rejected if you feel like you're not good enough, do you know what I mean? A bad place to be because who's working on? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And when you feel like that, where do you look then you looked at across, got a look to the cross, you look to the cross, and you look to the Lord and, and His grace is sufficient for you. You're perfect. You'll make your bow in your weakness because he will make you strong. He will as well you turn to Philippians one Ben you don't turn to spiritual directors you don't turn to leader or pastor the church to you know your turn,
Reverend Ben Cooper:turn to God to God to God, to whatever you're doing today. Turn to God. And Philippians chapter one, it says He who began a good work and you will bring it unto the day of completion, he will complete that work in you. You are work in progress. We are work in progress. God is with you wherever you are today. Have a great day. We thank you so much for listening to Simon and myself this morning. This afternoon this evening. Whenever you capture these podcasts back please, please share these out. We do appreciate it. Simon, what a great title you brought to the mics today. And that was the courage to walk in the fire Daniel chapter free and it was awash with other scriptures. We will see you next week. Stay safe, stay in the Word of God and never give up. Amen.
