Steve Valler - Our Service- (#105- Elim)

In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, Reverend Benjamin Cooper sits down with Steve Valler to explore the true meaning of Christian service. This open conversation dives deep into what it means to live a life that honours God through humble, obedient, and joyful service—whether in church, community, or personal relationships.

Drawing from biblical examples and real-life experiences, the discussion highlights the difference between religious duty and spiritual devotion. Reverend Ben and Steve reflect on how true service flows from a surrendered heart and a desire to reflect the love of Christ in action. It's not just about doing, but about being available, being faithful, and allowing God to use our lives for His purpose.

Topics covered include:

• What it means to serve with the right heart
• The importance of listening to God’s call
• Avoiding burnout in ministry and daily life
• Balancing service with rest and reflection
• Serving in both visible and hidden ways

They also challenge listeners to consider how spiritual gifts and individual calling play into our service to God. Whether you're volunteering in church, helping a neighbour, or simply being a faithful friend, everything we do can be an act of worship when it's done for the glory of God.

“Service isn’t about status. It’s about surrender. The greatest in the Kingdom is the servant of all.”

This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt stretched, questioned their calling, or wondered whether their work really matters in God’s eyes. Be encouraged to embrace your role—whatever it looks like—and serve with purpose, passion, and peace.

🔑 Keywords (with commas):

Christian service, serving God, ministry life, spiritual gifts, servant heart, church work, following Jesus, obedience to God, faith in action, biblical service, Steve Valler, Reverend Benjamin Cooper, humble service, daily discipleship, calling and purpose, spiritual surrender, servant leadership, volunteer ministry, Christian calling, worship through service. The Bible 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:13

Hello and welcome to Elim Church. You're joining myself, reverend Ben Cooper, for today's podcast. Yeah, good afternoon wherever you are today. We just want to say welcome wherever you are on planet Earth. We have our brother, steve, with us today and he has brought a really interesting text to the table. We welcome Steve. We are in the Gospel of John, chapter 13, verse 2 to 17, and Jeremiah If we touch that Jeremiah, chapter 20, verse 7 to 11. Steve, good afternoon.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Good afternoon, good afternoon.

Speaker 1: 0:43

How are we going, we all? Well, we're here, we're here, we're here, we're alive, we're breathing. Oh, woe is me. Come on, what have you got for us today? Well, let's see.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Interesting Anybody that might be listening to this after they listen to Simon Pinchbeck. I didn't hear Simon until today and I'd already got this prepared, so I'm not being I'm not nicking his stuff, the Lord is moving.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Yeah, very much so. The Lord is certainly moving, hallelujah.

Speaker 2: 1:13

So John 13 and 2. And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, simon sat to betray him. Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands and that he had come from God and was going to God, rose from supper and laid aside his garments, took a towel and girded himself. After that he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, wiped them with a towel which he was girded, with which he was girded, sorry. Then he came to Simon Peter, and Peter said to him Lord, are you washing my feet? Jesus answered and said to him what I am doing. You do not understand now, but you will know after this.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Peter said I, you will never wash my feet. Jesus answered him if I do not wash you, you have no part of me. Simon peter said to him lord, not my only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus said to him he who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, which is completely clean. You are clean, but not all of you, for he knew who would betray him. Therefore he said you are not all clean.

Speaker 2: 2:19

So when he washed their feet, taken his garments and sat down again. He said to them do you know what I have just done to you? You call me teacher and Lord and you say well, for so I am. If I, then your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet, for I've given you an example that you should do as I have done to you. Most assuredly I say say to you a servant is not greater than his master, nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them praise god, beautiful reading.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Well, there we go. Christ has come to serve and not to be served.

Speaker 2: 3:02

No.

Speaker 1: 3:05

That's a tricky one isn't it.

Speaker 2: 3:08

Two takeaways of that really straight away. Whether we touch on it is neither here nor there, but the interesting part about it is that he washes Judas's feet.

Speaker 1: 3:16

He does, doesn't he? Yeah, the betrayer. He knows he's going to betray him, he says so and he still washes his feet. That is a Intriguing isn't it Too much for me?

Speaker 2: 3:28

And Peter says hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. What are you doing?

Speaker 1: 3:34

What is it all about? What is Christ showing us clearly? I've got a pretty simple little understanding to it that the greatest among will do.

Speaker 2: 3:46

Yeah, the greatest among you will be the least. Christ came and he is the King of kings, and the Lord of lords came to earth to be the lowliest one possible. If you start digging around in his background, start looking at the Psalms and various things they start to allude to. I think it's Psalm 22, prior to when it gets to, my bones are actually on the sofa. I think it's in 22. It talks about how his word is a reproach to the people If you consider the fact that his mother was seen to be pregnant before she was married. Small towns know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Behind everyone's front door.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Yeah. So he grows up in a town where they know that he's dead, and he's dead. Who's his dad? What's his mum been doing? What's going on? And yet she's an honourable woman. Joseph's an honourable man. His name becomes a byword for whatever it becomes a byword for, and he's basically treated as scum. Yeah, yes, fact. And then comes along and he dies for the likes of you and me.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Can't work that out? Well, no, neither can I.

Speaker 2: 5:22

That's one thing I can never get my head around, never understand that.

Speaker 1: 5:24

It's far too thing I can never get my head around.

Speaker 2: 5:25

Never understand that. It's far too big for me to get my head around.

Speaker 1: 5:29

The way that you put that and the way we know that that's fact and it's very scriptural. The way you put that about Harry coming to the world and his parents and his mother and father and family that he chose, and the conversations must have gone around the village. You know, if the church had chose that he would have been born in a castle or palace. You know all sorts of things would have come complete opposite to what we see Christ doing.

Speaker 2: 5:57

Also, you pick up in the Gospels. Well, I certainly do. What other people do? I get a sense that his brothers aren't that enamoured of him.

Speaker 1: 6:05

No, they're not. No, they're not. Yeah, I get that. I see what you're saying there. So he's come and he's at this position here and he's washing their feet. That froze me. That actually froze me. That the King of Glory, the Great I Am, and however we look at that, is humbling himself to wash a human's feet, very much so, and seriously, it's very difficult to grasp.

Speaker 2: 6:35

I can't. It's very hard to grasp. We can read it To some degree, we can understand it, but to actually grasp it in its fullness is a very, very difficult um. The only way that we get some idea of um, of his service um, is when we start looking at, uh, the prophets of the Old Testament and people like Moses and what he went through. Okay, yeah, isaiah, the things that he went through, jeremiah, the things they went through. They were humiliated in many respects.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:21

It was. You can see it to some degree when you're dealing with just an ordinary man, but when you're dealing with Jesus Christ, it's very difficult it's very difficult, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 7:36

it's a very deep text. To me it's a very deep and very personal, and it really makes me, really makes me look at myself and really makes me think that he, the creator of the heavens and earth, has come all the way down 14 generations and chose to drop into the world through the way that you said and the biblical way that we know, and then now we see him washing feet, that is, from the heights of the heavens.

Speaker 2: 8:07

And if we take it through to the cross. He washes us in his blood.

Speaker 1: 8:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:13

So he gives his life for us. Again, you think why would you do that? What is the purpose? What is this? And the only answer is love, and it's the kind of love that's beyond a human being.

Speaker 1: 8:31

It's beyond the? Yeah, it's that love that goes deep, isn't it? The love that goes beyond the worldly love? Yeah, and interestingly up there we've got Judas Iscariot at this point as well, so there's a lot going on, isn't there? Yeah, the betrayer's there, the devil is at hand prompting Judas, and in this same breath, this same time, christ decides to take a towel, wrap it around his waist, to pour water into a basin and to wash his disciples' feet that were probably really iffy.

Speaker 2: 9:07

One of the interesting parts of that as well is that it says that he knows that God the Father has given all things into his hands. At that point you get a sense in the text that now God the Father has given everything, the whole responsibility is now in his son's hands In the son's hands Will he glorify the Father. Will he continue the way he's going? Yeah, it's almost like God. The Father takes a step back and says this is my son. This is your son.

Speaker 1: 9:38

This is all yours now. This is a big theological text you picked up here. It's beyond just the picture that many of us may have of just jesus washing the feet. It's like you said, it's a handing over as well, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 9:51

I say, well, it's certainly the way I see the way, yeah, the handing over of authority.

Speaker 1: 9:56

This is yours and the devil is standing in the wings. Judas is there.

Speaker 2: 10:01

So there's a lot going on in this, this area yeah, and it's at this point when God, the Father, gives everything into the hands of the Son and this is prior to the Garden of Gethsemane he can walk away.

Speaker 1: 10:17

Literally walk away, he can walk away.

Speaker 2: 10:20

No one can say you shouldn't have done that, and because God, the Father, has given everything into his hands, he's not going to be even rebuked by his Father if he chooses not to go.

Speaker 1: 10:31

That's correct. So verse 3 says Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, yes, and that he had come from God and was returning to God Yep.

Speaker 2: 10:43

And so there's, obviously, there's an enormous amount there that speaks of his relationship with his father, his relationship within the whole of the Godhead and how he has well, he's already determined I'm going to do this. I mean, god safely gave everything into his hands. He knew what he was going to do. He knew he wasn't going to walk away. But for true men and true God, there's still a temptation, as man, to chuck his hand in.

Speaker 1: 11:12

So that scripture that we're referring to, that Jesus knew that the Father put all power and all things under his power, was in his hands. Then he still had to go to the garden, still went to the garden.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Yeah, because basically what you're looking at there, he is saying I've come to do your will.

Speaker 1: 11:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:33

I've come to glorify you. Is there another way? If there's another way I know we've discussed this throughout all eternity there isn't another way. But if there is another way that you didn't tell me? About One last crack at this, but failing that, you're what we don't.

Speaker 1: 11:53

That's it, verse 3 of what Steve is bringing to the table. I'm going to repeat this. Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power and that he had come from God and was returning to God. And he chose. He chose to wash the disciples' feet and he still chose to go to the Garden of Gethsemane and, as Steve has just said, he still said that three times, if it is possible, if it's possible. So he knew he was returning to the Father. Yes, he knew that he was going to have to go to the Christ. We know that. He knows everything that was ahead.

Speaker 2: 12:35

What we don't know, of course, is we don't know how much he knows of the suffering that he's got to face.

Speaker 1: 12:41

Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 2: 12:43

I mean, if we look at it purely and simply from a physical suffering. There's few of us that would dance merrily down Primrose Path to face that. But we don't know the depth of the weight of the sin that he is going to have to carry. We don't understand that.

Speaker 1: 13:07

So here we have. Then what you're saying is, we have the physical pain of your flesh being stripped and torn. Yeah, I mean that's right.

Speaker 2: 13:15

And then, on top of that, yeah, the outward look of the cross. What's going on on the cross? Is an illustration of what's going on inside of it. Yeah, yeah is an illustration of what's going on inside of him. Yeah, yeah. So the sheer agony of bearing sin of the world if we want to get some idea of what's going on in his body. On the outside what he went through. Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:44

I can't grasp it. I think that the cross experience for me is that I can't really. I can't really get it. I can't really get myself to understand how this God would choose this way. I think this must be the most barbaric way to leave the earth on a cross, the worst. What else could there be? To be stripped, to be beaten, to have that whip across your back? I cannot even get to that point.

Speaker 2: 14:13

I think what has to be added into this is the fact that he didn't deserve it. No. No sin no, no sin no one could bring a charge against him at all no one could bring a charge no one.

Speaker 2: 14:29

And so this idea of service that he he indicates here, washing the disciples feet, as I said, judas is not excluded. No, he's not. It's an indication of the depth that he goes to to service. Yeah, because it's at this point he begins his walk to final service. See, everybody looks at Jesus. You get all these Mickey Mouse prophets and apostles and all these waffling on about power and so forth.

Speaker 2: 15:10

They look at the signs and wonders and they grab the whole point where Jesus said great signs and these you will do. And they grab that and they run with it. They run that, but if you wish to walk as Christ walked, it's not a simple fact of pardon me for this particular use of the vernacular, but I'm trying to make it sound as horrible as possible. You get a dollop of the Holy Spirit and you carry on from there. It's a nonsense.

Speaker 1: 15:47

It's rubbish, yes, it's blasphemy, it's not. You can't, no, no, you can't enter into them gates with that.

Speaker 2: 15:55

You can't do that. No, because, seriously, you take all these mega preachers standing up there laying hands on people and they all fall over. At the end of the day, everybody goes Coo, isn't he great? Very rarely do people look to God. They tend to look at the person up there.

Speaker 1: 16:13

The man.

Speaker 2: 16:14

And why do they? How do I know that? Well, because they end up buying his books and his CDs and his DVDs. That's why you know.

Speaker 1: 16:22

And they add to the wealth. Add to his wealth, yeah, add to his. Well, that's it, and the text that steve has brought to us. Here we have judas. The devil had already prompted judas and it says very clearly in this text that christ watches, washes the disciples feet.

Speaker 1: 16:42

So judas is in this process and christ knows that this judas is the betrayer, but he still chooses to wash his feet and that is really astonishing, it's yeah, we, we certainly, we certainly are in agreement with that one that this living God, the great I Am chooses to come into the world, as Steve so rightly put that, and scripturally based. And then we have Judas with the disciples and Christ still chooses to wash his feet. Yeah, that is.

Speaker 2: 17:25

So this? We looked at this and we decided the title is your Service, self Service? And when we look at this what Christ is doing and towards the cross we understand that his service is not self-service, far from yeah, then he makes this demand.

Speaker 2: 17:50

You must do as I have just done. Yeah, and that means you get no credit. No kudos, no, no red carpet, no recognition, no, nothing. You are there as a servant. A servant in one of the other Gospels. He says when the servant comes in from the field and the master says to him, prepare my meal. Now the servant doesn't get a chance to make his own dinner and he's been out in the field working hard All day. He comes in and he prepares his master's food. Once his master's eaten, then he can eat.

Speaker 2: 18:28

So once he's taken care of the master, once he's taken care of the master, then this is a similar sort of thing that you have to take care of before you take care of you. Your service, the service that is demanded of you, is demanded of you, is one of total self-sacrifice.

Speaker 1: 18:47

Surrender, self-sacrifice, handing everything over and giving to others. Yes, Before you think of self.

Speaker 2: 18:56

Yeah, you try and do that on your own.

Speaker 1: 18:58

Yeah, you try and do that, but I keep going back to that text where it says that Jesus knew, in verse 3, that the Father put all power, everything in his hands, everything was within his grasp right now. And Judas is there, right there in front of him, and he fills the bowl up with water, he puts a towel around his waist with all power in his hands to do anything and he washes.

Speaker 2: 19:25

He goes through this process, it is. He doesn't even say Judas, you're not part of this Pell, shove off, no he just does.

Speaker 1: 19:32

He just does it. Unconditional love that his hands, the hands of Christ, touch Judas' feet. Yeah, how humbling, how powerful, as he washes Judas' feet. The one that the devil had prompted had entered into that was going to use 30 pieces of silver. The dirty deed had been done. Yes. And he's there, sitting higher than Christ. Physically, christ is on his knees, washing his feet.

Speaker 2: 20:01

And I'm sure the devil was sitting outside having a bit of a chuckle, you can imagine can't you?

Speaker 1: 20:06

Because look at that, try and look at that picture, yes, of Christ on his knees.

Speaker 2: 20:11

Yeah, and, as I say, I'm sure the devil was sitting there going look at this, look at this, look what's going on. Yeah, without fully understanding the humility of God.

Speaker 1: 20:24

Yeah, because that's right, the humility of God. Yeah, because that's right, the humility of god. So what we have is christ in his fullness and full power. Yeah, and he does, kneeling.

Speaker 2: 20:35

This is before humanity this is with jesus he's got. He has nothing to prove to anybody. He knows exactly who he is yeah, he knows exactly where he's come from. He knows exactly where he's going. He is completely to use a modern day vernacular comfortable in his own skin. He has nothing to prove to anybody, nothing.

Speaker 1: 21:01

Nothing. He breathed the world into being, he spoke the world, and he's kneeling before this Judas, this one that was driven by money, that sold him for 30 pieces of silver, and christ created the judas in front of him.

Speaker 2: 21:17

He knows everything about him and so when we look at what he did, we now have to turn the spotlight on us. Come on, we have to ask ourselves is my service self-service?

Speaker 1: 21:32

Right yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:33

And this can be in the smallest areas to the largest areas it's easy to take a swipe at the name and claim it brigade, because you know they're up there to be taking a swipe at.

Speaker 1: 21:47

anyway, they put themselves up there. They put themselves up for their easy targets. They get their hard brigade because you know they're up there to be taking a swipe at.

Speaker 2: 21:51

Anyway, they put themselves up. They put themselves up for their easy time, you know, um, but yeah, uh, do I want his book? No, as simon was saying, you know, do we? Do we need it? Do christians need any more books? No, to be perfectly honest with you, we do not need any more books. There's been a surfeit of books. We do not need anybody to write any more books.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Don't cut any more trees down Unless you really, really, really, really know that God is calling you to write a book? Please don't write another book. Don't write another book, please Just leave it. And it comes down to the simplest of things. We were talking just before we started how it is that you know we'll be in a prayer meeting. Yeah. And there's a sense of the Holy Spirit taking us in a particular direction in prayer. And then somebody starts praying something and you wonder what are you doing? Why are you praying this prayer?

Speaker 1: 22:43

Why Bless me Lord?

Speaker 2: 22:45

And it's a self-serving prayer. It is, you know, standing up. Look at me. I can pray this great prayer. There's a boasting even though they're not boasting, but there's a boasting in the way they're doing it.

Speaker 1: 23:00

So we could reference Pharisees and Sadducees standing on the street corners. Street corners, yeah, yeah, making a noise for the sake of making a noise. Yeah, looking good yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:09

I mean God has blessed me with a very powerful voice. I must say you have. But in the many years I've been in the church, God has never, ever directed me to any sort of ministry with that voice. I know where I'm supposed to be. I'm supposed to be in the congregation singing so that other people that are afraid of singing can jump in behind my voice and sing away happily and not feel any self-consciousness.

Speaker 2: 23:36

Praise God, and that's why I've been given that voice. You know the gift? Yes, it's a gift. There's no two ways. It's a gift. I've not got a trained voice. I can't train people, I cannot teach people how to sing because I was never taught how to sing.

Speaker 1: 23:49

God gave me the voice and that's the end of it. That is a miracle and that's it.

Speaker 2: 23:56

and so when I hear some of these people that are supposed to have music ministries, that are there to sell their CDs strangle cats, what seriously do you know what you're singing? Do you even listen to the words that you're singing? Cds and all the rest of it Strangled cats. What Seriously do you know what you're singing? Do you even listen to the words that you're singing? Yes, I mean the vast majority of stuff today. Not only is the music poor, but the lyrics stink.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Yeah, because it's all. If you really listen to the lyrics, it's nothing to do with God. No.

Speaker 2: 24:24

No, it's self-service.

Speaker 1: 24:25

It's self-service.

Speaker 2: 24:26

You know, I don't know if I've told. I might have told this story several months ago.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Let's have it come on.

Speaker 2: 24:33

But there was a guy the fellow that penned the cross on the switchblade about David Wilkinson was a bloke called Jamie Buckingham Okay, and he would go around and speak to various places and he went to a particular church one day and he was going to speak to some people and when he got there he said there was these two old guys sitting out front with a couple of busted-up banjos strumming away singing, and he said it was like hearing a pair of cats. It sounds like me A pair of cats. It's me with a guitar.

Speaker 2: 25:08

And he sat there there and he thought, what an absolute racket this is. How on earth can this give glory to God? And he really felt a prompting in his spirit and he sensed the Holy Spirit saying shut up, I'm listening to my children worship.

Speaker 1: 25:23

There you go. That's it, my children worship. That's it. That's it, my children worship.

Speaker 2: 25:28

That's it. That's it. These men couldn't care less what they sounded like it was to whom they were worshipping.

Speaker 1: 25:35

I know, yeah, I've got to stop myself from grinning, but that's fact, that's fact. They were just in this place of worship. Yeah, and they're not worried about their voice. No, no, no, they're not worried about the sound they're making, no, but it was their heart condition. Yeah, yeah, great.

Speaker 2: 25:52

And it's purely down to that. And then, when we start moving into those areas of, shall we say, recognised ministry the televangelist, the bloke who's selling his books, the fellow who's selling his CDs and DVDs, all right, there are several people that I listen to and watch and various things, but I don't follow them as such.

Speaker 1: 26:22

But out of that vast amount of people we're thinking of it's a bit there's not many that you could really pull and go. Do you know what? They're? Definitely, definitely call to god because they've all called themselves, they all put themselves in that position. Most I wouldn't, I shouldn't have said all, but I correct myself there but most self elevate themselves and put themselves in position.

Speaker 2: 26:48

It's, it's, um, the problem with, one of the problems with serving god is it's easy to steal his glory. Yeah, without even understanding it, without even knowing it without knowing that meaning it's very easy to put ourselves in the spotlight. The kind of people that you don't hear about are the missionaries and the people that lay down their life on a daily basis. Unfortunately, the Christian world is like the world itself.

Speaker 1: 27:25

It likes its celebrities. It loves the celebrity preachers, teachers, teachers, tele-evangelists, booksellers authors.

Speaker 2: 27:32

Yeah, yeah, and also, you know, as I said to you before, I was part and parcel of the Four Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship and it was sort of, you know, getting a bloke with the absolute worst Testimony Testimony. You know he was a real dirty, horrible rat. Let's bring him in and it becomes an attraction.

Speaker 1: 27:50

Yeah, that's right, it is, it's attractive to listen to. But yeah, you are right, the missionary, the missionary that has sold everything, left everything, dropped his nets, gone, and they've gone abroad, they've gone. Wherever they've gone, they just actually serving God in the quietness where no one sees them. That's it, just between them and Christ, that's it.

Speaker 2: 28:13

And you know they're the ones that get the great reward when they stand before the when they get called into glory. Yes, yes, of course because, they've done it unto God, not unto themselves.

Speaker 1: 28:25

Christ says that, doesn't he? He says I'm here, for this is all for God's glory. This is for him, this is to glorify the Father, this is to lift him up, this is to exalt him. This is to put him up not me, even though he was the you know we're getting into.

Speaker 1: 28:44

No, no, it's positional, positional, isn't it Fascinating, fascinating stuff and my mind is just racing away at the moment with this text that steve has brought to the table today that the father has given him all power, all control, everything spoke the world into being. Judas is sitting there with the 11 whoever was there with him, as we know who was sitting there? And Judas has been prompted. So what do we mean? Prompted by Lucifer? Do we take at this point that Lucifer had actually entered into him?

Speaker 2: 29:19

No, I don't think so. That happens later, doesn't it in the text?

Speaker 1: 29:21

Yeah, so we're going down a road that he's nudged him and Judas has given him a foothold and he's been tempted with the money.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Well, I think we have to understand that Judas's character never changes. From the beginning he's self-serving. Okay, Right On the face of it, he might have been a good chap.

Speaker 1: 29:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:40

You know he might have been a, you know someone that wanted to help people out.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Yeah, but it was an opportunist, I think, and he was driven by the money.

Speaker 2: 29:52

He was an opportunist. Well, john says he was a thief, didn't he? Yeah, he did, but he was an opportunist and I don't know, perhaps there was something of Simon Magister about him. Yeah, he's one of the disciples that was sent out to preach the gospel. We were sent out in the power of the Holy Spirit and you can imagine someone like that. Suddenly he gets, he gets a great. You know, he gets a lot of kudos. I'm casting out devils and I'm doing this and I'm doing that. Hey, look at me. Look at me when they come back and this, and Jesus quietly rebukes them and says well, they know what you're cheering about. You know rather cheer about the fact that your name is written in the book of life.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Perhaps 11 of them kind of crestfallen and thought he's quite right there and Judas might have thought, all right, we didn't say that, did we? It's his character. Yeah, you're so right, it's his character.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Yeah, yeah, you're so right, it's his character, it's in the skin, it's him, it's him all over.

Speaker 2: 30:56

In Exodus he talks about how God hardened Pharaoh's heart. I don't know he needed a lot of hardening, he was already committed.

Speaker 1: 31:03

He was a tough chap. I think he must have had it in the bones he was already committed and God just turned the lock and said well, that's it. That's it, you're done. Just carry on as you are.

Speaker 2: 31:10

That's it, and that's the same thing, I think with.

Speaker 2: 31:12

Judas. But I'd like to read the Jeremiah quote because it's an indication. It's more of an indication for us as we serve God. Let me read it anyway, and it's in Jeremiah 20, and we pick it up in verse 7. O Lord, you induced me and I was persuaded you are stronger than I and have prevailed.

Speaker 2: 31:39

I am in derision daily. Everyone mocks me, for when I spoke I cried out. I shouted violence and plunder because the word of the Lord was made to me a reproach and a derision daily. Then I said I will not make mention of him, nor speak anymore in his name. But his word was in my heart like a burning fire shut up in my bones. I was weary of holding it back and I could not, for I heard many mocking fear on every side. Report, they say, and we will report it.

Speaker 2: 32:09

All my acquaintances watched for my stumbling, saying perhaps he can be induced. Then we will prevail against him and we will take our revenge on him. But the Lord is with me as a mighty, awesome one. Therefore, my persecutors will stumble and will not prevail. They will be greatly ashamed, for they will not prosper. Their everlasting confusion will never be forgotten. How many of God's servants could say this, that the pressure of the ministry which God has given them is so great but they can't walk away from it, no matter what happens, no matter how things occur, they've got to. As Jeremiah said, it burns in the bones.

Speaker 1: 32:59

Yeah, I can get a glimmer of actually I can get a bit of a glimmer of that through this lockdown, through the discussions we've had. I can sense that and that's really hit me hard. I could never walk away.

Speaker 2: 33:16

No.

Speaker 1: 33:17

I couldn't, I can't.

Speaker 2: 33:20

No, there is a point, but I can feel it, steve.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Yes, no, I understand. You know, I feel it in my butt, I feel it.

Speaker 2: 33:26

Yes, I, I understand, you know, I feel it in my butt. I feel it. Yes, I fully understand and it's something which a lot of Christians don't like the idea of that God has this, he has induced me. I can hear all the Armenians leaping up and down at the moment.

Speaker 2: 33:43

I can hear all the Armenians leaping up and down at the moment. But the point is that if you say your will be done, not mine, oh goodness. What do you think God's going to say? Don't worry about that boy, it's all right. You've entered into. I can't remember who said it. Was it Wesley? I can't remember. We come to Was it Wesley? I can't remember that. The cross, we come to the cross, and there is this great transaction that his holiness is given to us and our unholiness is given to him.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Now in that great transaction, and if that great transaction has actually taken place, there is a change within the Christian and there comes a point within the Christian where they cannot but serve. And even if we take Judas and Peter as an example, judas never entered into the great transaction with Christ, even before the cross no.

Speaker 2: 34:52

Because he ended up tolling himself. Yeah, but Peter, even with all his frailties and all his fallenness, he had entered into a great transaction with Christ. He had, and even his shame could not take it away, even the shame that he denied Christ, he couldn't walk away from it.

Speaker 1: 35:13

No, even with all his failings, even with all the stuff that he had, mistakes, everything, he still couldn't walk away. No, he said it, but he couldn't do it.

Speaker 2: 35:22

That's right, and I think this is something which Christians need to consider, this Very much so, when they have said, not my will, but your will be done. Oh dear, it has to be.

Speaker 1: 35:43

From the bones.

Speaker 2: 35:44

It has to be the desire of the heart, yeah it has to be it has to be the desire of the heart. Now it has to be. It has to be the desire of the heart. Now that doesn't mean to say that we don't make mistakes, we don't fall and we don't do all sorts of silly things. But at the end of the day I don't know if I said this last week or the week before one of the worst things I can think of is my will be done. I cannot think of anything worse.

Speaker 1: 36:04

I I cannot think of anything worse. I agree with that. My fleshly will, it'd be carnage. I just cannot it?

Speaker 2: 36:12

just I abhor the thought, and there has to be. We talk about purchase, the purchase of blood. We sing these songs, songs. Do we really consider?

Speaker 1: 36:29

do we understand it?

Speaker 2: 36:30

we have been bought at a price. We have been bought by the blood of Christ, which is more precious than all the rubies. We do not belong to ourselves. We belong to another, but we still fall. Our lives are in his hands. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:52

We can chase down all the illustrations, the bride and the bridegroom yeah, everything. We obey our bridegroom, the slave and the master. We obey our master, the king and the one that belongs to his country, the citizen of that country. The king is the one that we listen to, and the thing about it is, through it all, that, whilst the language that Jeremiah uses here some people don't like, you were stronger than I and you induced me.

Speaker 1: 37:31

Yeah, he's very strong.

Speaker 2: 37:34

Nevertheless, there is, as we follow it through, there's no regret in Jeremiah that this has occurred no. He's gone through all this misery, he's gone through all this cursing and all the rest of it.

Speaker 1: 37:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:49

But at the end of the day, he doesn't regret it. No, he doesn't. There's no regret. There's almost a sense of he's content with it because he's content with his God.

Speaker 1: 38:00

He's content with his God. That's it, yeah. So his lips and his flesh are doing the opposite to what his bones and his heart is, and that is so typical, isn't it yeah?

Speaker 2: 38:15

And you know, I suppose, basically, when Jesus said my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Is a kind of reflection of this.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Yeah, you know the human and spiritual.

Speaker 2: 38:26

Yeah, you know we are, and spiritual, yeah, you know we are frail. We are. We are frail flesh, we are very frail and we're a mess.

Speaker 1: 38:37

We are a mess.

Speaker 2: 38:38

But even in that mess there's that thing within us we cannot walk away.

Speaker 1: 38:45

And that is put so beautifully here. It says his word is in my heart like a fire. Yes, Like a fire.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Yes, and I know there are arguments about whether people can lose their salvation and so on and so forth, and can they walk away. But when I read these kind of texts and I look at people like Peter, that to me God has done something in that heart, on the heart of that man, that is irreversible.

Speaker 1: 39:12

It's irreversible Even though the flesh is trundling off down the Las Vegas road. Yes, all the time it goes down that road, the fire in your bones is telling you no, no, no, no. So there's this conflict, yes, there's this fight within oneself. Yeah, I'm starting to find that I'm fighting myself more. I don't. The devil has no. Oh no no, he's like go on, it's me.

Speaker 2: 39:36

Yes, it is, it's me and me, it's two me's I mean the flesh will want to go the way of the devil, certainly, and the devil will come along and he'll whisper quietly in your ear Come on this way, this way. But at the end of the day, our great battle is with ourselves.

Speaker 1: 39:48

With me. Our greatest enemy is ourselves, and I've never this scripture, I've read this before, but now, as I sit in front of Steve and in front of everybody recording this podcast, this is so relevant. His word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones. That is like you feel that. You feel it. You can't he's put that very powerfully but to try it, it says what it says. But when you feel that you've got, you know that there's no way you can go any other way.

Speaker 2: 40:25

No, no, that's it. You can't, you can't go any other way. No, there is something within you you have to deny yourself. Yeah, you have to you have to.

Speaker 1: 40:37

You literally have to get a hold of yourself.

Speaker 2: 40:40

Yes, and it doesn't mean at this particular moment in time, that I'm ready for someone to come through that door and start sort of beating me up and doing stuff like that, because God takes us through, yes, and prepares us for these things. Yeah, if you look at the disciples, in in their whole life, they are going through preparations all the time. You read Paul, I have learned, I have learned. I have learned.

Speaker 1: 41:09

I have learned um I think that's what we've referenced a lot, haven't we that? We have learned a lot through this lockdown? Yes, yeah, and we've been stripped back. Yes, probably not enough, not, no, no, glad you said that. Thanks for reminding me. Strip me back more, lord, your will done. And, as you said at the very beginning, a quarter of the way into this, your will be done. When you pray a prayer like that, you better be ready for what is going to happen. Oh, yes, very much so. No outside influence from Lucifer or Nick, but when you pray a prayer like that, god is going to do that.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Yes, and you have to be prepared for that internal battle. If you don't, I would say that if there was no internal battle, there's something wrong within. Yeah, there's something wrong within.

Speaker 2: 42:04

Many people look to the Church of Laodicea and say are you hot and are you cold? And they tend to. You know, I know you're lukewarm, so I'm going to speak you out of my mouth um, I. Most of the time it's um, uh, the way I've heard it most of the time is are you serving jesus? Are you doing this? Are you doing? Are you out there? Are you doing this? Are you doing that? Are you out there? Are you doing this? Are you doing that? But seriously, at the end of the day, that which Christ is talking about for me with regards to the Laodicean church is that war that goes on within. And if you're lukewarm within, that's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. It's that's the danger.

Speaker 2: 42:52

We come back to service. You see, you come back. We come back to this area of service. Why are we serving? What's the point of our service? We can, all people can. In Corinthians, paul talks about you know, we can do this and we can do that. But if we have no love, then In Corinthians, paul talks about you know, we can do this and we can do that, but if we have no love, then it's meaningless. I'm sounding gong, yeah. And so we have to know that we're doing it out of love. Now we can all. It's very easy to stand up and say, oh Jesus, I love you. But yeah, do you, do, you Do you love me.

Speaker 1: 43:25

It's a question I ask myself often yeah, and that's what you, and often I have to say I don't know that I do.

Speaker 2: 43:34

I'm getting a check in my heart. There is love, yes, but it's insufficient. Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1: 43:46

It's difficult, a word, isn't it? Yeah. It's that inner feeling. It's. It's difficult to word, isn't it? Yeah, it's that inner feeling. It's not a? Is it a feeling of not being worthy as well, not being good enough?

Speaker 2: 43:56

No, not good enough, it doesn't come into it, it's. It's a case of looking at oneself, knowing that the reason that the love is not as great as it should be is because the flesh is still too great the flesh is is greater.

Speaker 1: 44:16

But because you recognize that, do you really think the flesh is greater and you're more aware of it spiritually? And we're thinking do you know what the flesh is? I don't know the the flesh is greater.

Speaker 2: 44:27

I don't know if the flesh is greater, but it's great.

Speaker 1: 44:29

You're aware of it, it's great, yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2: 44:34

It doesn't take the love away, it doesn't swamp the love or anything like that. But you're conscious, it's wrestling with it. This love is struggling. Yeah, to break forth To grow, you know. Yeah, to break forth To grow you know, yeah to move. I'm a bit of a gardener, and so there are times when I've got things in the garden that are struggling to grow because there's all weeds around us. I've got to pull the weeds up.

Speaker 1: 44:54

So the plant can come out. You know what I mean. Pull the weeds out of me.

Speaker 2: 44:58

Pull the weeds out and that's it.

Speaker 1: 45:01

It's recognising, isn't it? It's recognising there are weeds, there's weeds around me, there's weeds in me. You've got to get that root out. You've got to get that out, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:10

Extraction, the parable of the seeds. The good ground is only good because the ground has to be broken. You can't. A seed won't grow up unless it when it talks about on the stony ground and on the thorns and thistles and on the good ground. Well, I've got stony ground parts of my garden, I've got thorns and thistles parts of my garden and I've got good ground in parts of my garden. Why? Because I've cleared the stones and the weeds from it.

Speaker 1: 45:40

Yeah, you've worked at it, you've got to work at it, you've got to work at it.

Speaker 2: 45:43

But you can only work at it by the Spirit of God.

Speaker 1: 45:46

It's not something that you can do.

Speaker 2: 45:48

You can't do that, no because, again, strangely enough, we come back to this area of service because service is always, is it? Self-service? This might sound very strange, but the only way that I can give an illustration of that is people that do things, because if I didn't do it, nobody else would. There's this aspect of a martyr. Yeah, you know what I mean, I'll do it, I'll do it. Nobody else is going to do it, so I'm going to do it. And look how good I am because I'm doing it. And at the end of the day, why are you digging up your weeds? What?

Speaker 1: 46:26

is the purpose. Why are you clearing the ground?

Speaker 2: 46:28

Why are you clearing the ground? Why are you doing it? What?

Speaker 1: 46:30

is the purpose.

Speaker 2: 46:32

And if you cannot say the purpose is Christ, pack up.

Speaker 1: 46:37

Seriously.

Speaker 2: 46:41

I honestly believe when you engage with God in this way, you know when you're sounding brass.

Speaker 1: 46:49

Yeah, and you know that there's no way back.

Speaker 2: 46:52

No, no, no, no, but you know when you're sounding brass? Yeah, you know it, and you know you have to deal with it before.

Speaker 1: 46:57

You know it. Yeah, you have to. You won't tell anybody, but you know it. Yes, you know that.

Speaker 2: 47:02

Well, it's difficult to explain because it's only when you come into a place of prayer that you understand, there's a gong clanging on inside of me.

Speaker 1: 47:10

And you can't explain your feelings really to anybody and that connection between you and God. You can't explain that. No, no, no. You can get a little bit of an understanding by reasoning and chatting together, but no one knows you like God.

Speaker 2: 47:24

No.

Speaker 1: 47:24

No one knows yourself like yourself.

Speaker 2: 47:26

No, and in that engagement in prayer, as God shines that light within, it's at that point that we come back to, if you like me, dear old Jeremiah albeit I'm not going out preaching the word or anything like that but when his word begins to burn in my bones, I've got to do something about it. Bones, I've got to do something about it, I've got to do something about it and and that engagement, god, god is relentless. He will not give up.

Speaker 1: 47:57

God is relentless um, on and on, yeah and on. You can't run, no, no, no, you can't hide and he doesn't you know, poor old jonah, he doesn't. You know, poor old.

Speaker 2: 48:07

Jonah, he doesn't. Well, that's in there, jonah, exactly right. I was thinking about Jonah the other day. You know you can't get away. You can't get away. Jonah entered into a relationship with God and God said go and do this. And Jonah said I ain't think they should be saved. You're a bunch of Gentiles and they don't deserve it. I'm off, so off. And God said why can't I love these people? Why can't I love the Gentile as much as I love you?

Speaker 2: 48:35

And he chases him down and he gives him that little tree and the tree dies and he says you know you're worried about a tree, you know there's 150,000 souls, that I'm off, lord, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:46

Well, you know that's a great story. I'm off see ya. You can't run, you can't hide again it's.

Speaker 2: 48:54

We encounter this several times. There's a point in I think it's in John, where people, where Jesus, speaks. I'm not sure if it's where he talks about eating his body and drinking his blood. I'm not sure if it's where he talks about eating his body and drinking his blood. I'm not sure but it says that many departed from him at that time and he turned to the disciples and said and what about you? And what about you? What about you? And Peter says. Peter gives probably the biggest backhanded compliment that's ever been written. He says where else should we go? Only you have the words of eternal life. There's almost a sense of him saying well, we feel exactly the same way as they do, but we can't go anywhere.

Speaker 1: 49:34

There's nowhere to go there's nowhere to go.

Speaker 2: 49:35

We know who you are. We know you know the transaction's been made.

Speaker 1: 49:40

It's been done.

Speaker 2: 49:41

It's been done.

Speaker 1: 49:45

And when you know that it's been done, there's no way. No, no, no. There's nowhere else to go.

Speaker 2: 49:47

No, nowhere, no, nowhere across the earth, nowhere in the heavens above, and even at the end, when Peter tries to duck out the turmoil that's going on inside of this man as he develops and as he grows. You know I want to get. This is too much for me. Look, I'm a big. This is too much for me. I'm a big, tough fisherman. I should be able to handle this. Take my sword out and cut somebody's ear off and I can do it. But you know when you're asking me to do something.

Speaker 1: 50:18

Different story.

Speaker 2: 50:19

It's a different strength. I haven't got that construct.

Speaker 1: 50:21

I haven't got that.

Speaker 2: 50:22

I can fight a battle for you, I can do this for you, I can do that for you, I can do this for you and do that for you, but you're asking me to reveal my true self yeah, my true self and you're asking me something that I can't do that but with you I can.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Big text, big text. The word is burning in my heart like fire, a fire shut up in my bones. Come on Lord.

Speaker 2: 50:50

And so this is something every Christian seriously has to take on. Yeah, they have to consider. Is this service self-service? Yeah, it's a question that has to be asked. The service self-service, it's a question that has to be asked. If it's not asked now, it will be asked when we stand before the beam of sight of Christ. And Paul makes this very clear you be careful with what you build with.

Speaker 1: 51:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:20

All right, yes, what you build with Pressure stones, gold, silver, hay straws. It's all going to be tested. It's all going to be tested, yeah All right hay straw.

Speaker 1: 51:25

It's all going to be tested. It's all going to be tested, yeah alright what are you building with?

Speaker 2: 51:31

and, personally speaking, I've always everybody says well, I'm not going to be, I am not going to be building with straw and hay. Personally speaking, I'm not going to be. I don't want to build with straw, hay, silver or gold, because they all perish. They do, don't they? They all perish, they do don't they, they all perish. Yeah, precious stones. What are precious stones? Souls, souls. It's how you deal, it's your service towards mankind.

Speaker 2: 51:59

It's your service towards God and, through him, to mankind. Those are the precious stones. That's what's precious in God's sight. He could not give a tutney toss about gold and silver. We're going to be walking on it when we get to heaven. So that's how much he thinks of it. You know, and pearls are gates it's humanity, it's the soul, it's the precious stone, what do you build with?

Speaker 2: 52:26

as I say personally speaking, if you look at all of that, it's what's precious, and your service is precious. Those precious stones, yes, they are sold, but those precious stones are your service to God, and is it precious? Is it precious? Is it something that is….

Speaker 1: 52:47

Eternal value.

Speaker 2: 52:49

Well, it's got to be of eternal value. But the question is, is it precious to you? To you, yeah? Can you honestly say that this is unto god?

Speaker 1: 53:02

yeah, is this for his glory yeah is, is this for him?

Speaker 2: 53:06

Yes, can you say that?

Speaker 1: 53:09

Again referencing Paul in.

Speaker 2: 53:10

Corinthians, you know we come back to the clanging gong.

Speaker 1: 53:16

The clanging.

Speaker 2: 53:17

Am I sounding brass? Am I just making a noise?

Speaker 1: 53:20

Yeah, Clanging, making a racket.

Speaker 2: 53:24

And let's face it, before this lockdown, we all used to make a racket, didn't we?

Speaker 1: 53:28

I made a great noise. You go to church and you, you know we were all I was a great gong.

Speaker 2: 53:31

We were all clanging gongs to some degree. I'm sure at some point we'll still be clanging gongs. I'm not saying we're going to be perfect, but with this lockdown God has given us a great opportunity to deal with things before him.

Speaker 1: 53:44

Yeah, it's right. Yeah, very noisy the church religion very noisy at the beginning yes, oh yeah yeah, now there's a lot of silence and God is really speaking. God is speaking. As we said, there's a small window of opportunity to get me right. That's it. To look at me, to stop making a noise, stop beating me on gong, rattling on Lord. What is the purpose of my life? Your will be done, yep. A lot of big questions and that's.

Speaker 2: 54:14

That's the. The other thing about your will be done. It really is a case of your will be done and it doesn't matter what. So if god doesn't, matter what yeah it, you see it. Most people say, oh, that means he's going to send me out and do this. No, in actual fact, he might not do anything at all. That's the key. That is it. Are you willing to sit and wait and do nothing?

Speaker 1: 54:37

That is a harder thing to do, I believe, for me to sit and to wait than the opposite.

Speaker 2: 54:44

to that I'll be busy about many things. I'm busy about my father.

Speaker 1: 54:47

Clanging on making a noise, a religious activity. I'm not saying no, we know what you're saying Ministries are very important. God calls people into ministry, but I think you said something there, steve, as we bring this to a finish, is God calling you into?

Speaker 2: 55:05

this yes, very much so.

Speaker 1: 55:07

Yes, or have you or your friends and the pastors said, as you give that great story, that time we've got no pastor in this area. Oh, you'll do the job for a while. I'd better do it because there's no one else. There's no one else. That is the summing up, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 55:23

I've heard that, oh dear, that's terrible.

Speaker 1: 55:27

Rather than sitting there and waiting, as you just said. Because that is the point We've got no pastor.

Speaker 2: 55:35

We'll wait, yeah, just an illustration. When the Lord began to call me back in the day, I was talking to a bloke Keith Smith his name was and he started to talk about this illustration of being called and he said so often Christians, when they're saved, they want to do something for God. They want to do something and I said what do you want me to do? And he said stand there. What do you want me to do? I said stand there. Can I get you anything? I said stand there. Would you like a glass of water? No, stand there. He said, and eventually the penny drops. He wants you to stand there.

Speaker 1: 56:16

That is it what I'm asking you to do. Stand, stand there. Yeah, that is the command Stand, stand. Stand there. No, but what do you want me to do? No, just stand there, no, but.

Speaker 2: 56:26

I've got to be doing stand, stand there. And it's necessary, and I'm not saying everybody's going to be just stood standing there, but a big percentage. It's a necessity to know what God wants you to do.

Speaker 1: 56:39

Yeah, there's that, but then you'll know the direction, won't you?

Speaker 2: 56:43

There's the scripture, many are called but few are chosen. I think in the Greek it actually says all are called but few are chosen. So there's a sense whereby all are called, that are saved into the kingdom of God, but few are chosen to. Shall we say, work a shepherd or whatever? I mean we've all got aspects that we're supposed to serve. We've just read this. Jesus says to them now you do this to one another.

Speaker 2: 57:20

So there is an aspect of we must do yeah there's always an aspect of service and so on and so forth, but so many Christians want to. You know, Simon was saying about writing a book and all this. Anyway, you know, I'll write a book or I'll be a pastor or bishop or this or that, what part of the body? Am I? Yeah, you know you're an important part of the body.

Speaker 2: 57:38

Yeah, you know that's the first thing you might be a little toe, because if you cut a toe off, your balance goes out. The rest of us are going to wobble and you have to learn to walk again properly. Yeah, it's right. And it's not what you do, it's how you do it. For whom do you do it? And do you do it to his glory?

Speaker 1: 58:04

Amen, amen, that is that is wrap, wrapped that up beautifully. You know, and, steve, we thank you so much for bringing this text, being obedient to the father, the son, the holy spirit listening to that, bringing this to the table and as we catch you and we'll, we'll catch you next week. May god bless everybody listening to this. This has really made me think. This has really stretched me, which it needs to, and we thank Steve for bringing us again. I'm just going to say thank you again. May God bless you, steve, and we will catch you all, everybody listening on Spotify, all the other platforms, wherever you may be. We thank you so much. Have a great rest of the day, wherever you are on planet Earth.

Speaker 3: 58:43

May God bless you and strengthen you, steve once again, thank you, my friend, and we'll catch you all very soon. God bless you all. Take care now. God bless Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to Elim Church's One List latest podcast. You can find us on Buzzsprout, spotify, apple Music, iheartradio, google Play, alexa, mixcloud, facebook, instagram and YouTube.