Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Join Reverend Ben Cooper from Elim Swanley on a spiritual journey through life's profound questions, offering wisdom, insight, and a touch of humour in every episode. "Embarking on a soul-enriching voyage through the Bible's timeless wisdom and the Christian journey, with a diverse array of inspiring guests, Join us as we explore faith, life, and hope.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
The Lords Prayer- (#69- Elim)
Around 2000 years ago Jesus began the prayer for all people with "Our Father, who art in heaven..." a prayer for people who are already believers and for those who are new to praying and for those who want a connection with God. It's perfect prayer, which encompasses all elements of christianity. This week, Reverend Ben and Leya have fun discussing it's meaning and it's context.
https://www.pastorbencooper.co.uk/
Hello and welcome to our podcast here Elim church in swanley. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper. And we are so glad that you are with us wherever you are around the world. And we have with us today on this Saturday morning. We have someone that has flown in in a new car. name is Leya Jane Moore. Before we go any further, you can find us on Spotify, Apple Music, Google Play Alexa, Facebook,
Leya:Instagram,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and so many more. So many more. It will take another hour to get through all the other stuff.
Leya:You can also find this written across your heart.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, come on. Now. Well, sort of a wait. We add up and tired. Oh.
Leya:I've had a very difficult week. Yeah, have you? Yeah. My car died. I'd buy new car. Well, yeah, vehicles.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. cost a fortune, don't they? Yeah. It's just been like, I can't believe we're sitting here again. recording this. We missed last week. They
Leya:missed last week.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We missed last week either.
Leya:Because I had to buy the car. Yeah, I didn't have to buy a car in.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You don't know. You got it all sorted aside. But it's two weeks since we covered and it feels like time has just
Leya:gone by flies by it's mad. And I've been so busy at work though and things like that. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:what's this lockdown doing to us? It's crazy. It's crazy. We are in a good subject tonight. We are we are in New Testament testament and we are in Matthew chapter six. Verses nine through to 13 and it is
Leya:the Lord's Prayer the Lord's Prayer The only pray you need
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you think about that the only one he is not always given us yeah. And he said How many times are one of this has been said I'll tell
Leya:you the first time I said it when Brown is no
Reverend Ben Cooper:flight school, play school
Leya:play school. I went to Christchurch play school and I used to suck my thumb when they said it. So I'd say more her
Reverend Ben Cooper:morning when it was open
Leya:Yeah. When but that's the first prayer that I ever learned. And I didn't even realize it was prayer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh there you go.
Leya:It was just something you said and then brownies say at the end yeah every single one you say it so you learn it by rote before you can read
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes
Leya:before you read before he can write you learn it by rote yeah
Reverend Ben Cooper:Bosh, one word
Leya:and no research required this week gonna say because sometimes I can go in a little bit deep research required
Reverend Ben Cooper:keyword type it's just literally the prayer but what I have noticed that when I do a lot of funerals and you know do a lot of funerals when you sell we sell a lot pressure everyone goes we know that we know that we know that yeah when yeah we know that and never I've been to church in years but like you said coming out of school coming out and brass cubs all that sort of stuff if not the
Leya:number one karaoke prayer is
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's got so much power
Leya:to anybody in the world and said our father He didn't even say it just
Reverend Ben Cooper:just for it go for
Leya:it knock it out the park really offer
Reverend Ben Cooper:such a powerful prayer and I think Christ gave us this model
Leya:that's what I want you to tell me where cuz I don't know that much about when it was said who said it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He was talking to the audience those around him disciples. So when you look at it if we were to back up in a bit of Scripture
Leya:context, tell me the story. Okay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus came out the calf he come out the calf got in his transit van and he had a crew cab. Okay, I get them all in the back of the van. Oh. Serious.
Leya:And then he went up to some mountain somewhere. Why did he go to the Mount mountain?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think the man Yeah, it was it was raining. Yeah, flood again I ground because it's true. It's not true. It's just the place is just the landscape in the area where they wish to go.
Leya:First proper sermon that you go to people. Well,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Matt, nice 24 this is this is trying to keep it nice and fluffy. So in in Matthew chapter six. Firstly, it talks about giving to the needy. And then in verse five, it comes on to about prayer and it says when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. I wonder who they are. And it says For they love to stand on street corners in the synagogues, praying and being seen by others. Truly it says they have received everything and they're rewarded in full but when you pray so right he's given us an indicator Hosea, he's talking to the disciples and he's talking to everyone around him at that point. So he's talking about all those that are with him at this particular point, right. So I suppose 1020 people yeah, about that. Yeah,
Leya:ran about that. They've all had a picnic and got along to see Jesus during his concert. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:they will. Yeah, yeah. Right. Okay. So it says inversely, today it says, verse six is really important. So at first in in, just for the reference, in Matthew, chapter six, verse five onwards, it tells us how we should pray. Don't be like the hypocrites. They love to stand on street corners and being synagogues and to have their voice heard. He says, Truly, I tell you that they have received their reward in full but when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is unseen. So it's not about showing the world look, I am a Christian. I am praying and lip service. And that's what we got in religion. Everything is very pompous and very theatrical, isn't it? Everything's very showy. Everything. That's the truth that everything is showing, you
Leya:could have put on a golden robe of a big tall hat.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll get a staff and you know, and I walk down a road and the bigger the hand, the more exactly, big me cross. The more of occasion I am. Oh, my. God, one's not talking about some bling. Bigger than bling. The more street cred I
Leya:have a bling bling crucifix? Yeah, no, no, I don't. I don't say how do I get one? Oh, cuz I could just look on Amazon or eBay. Other shops are available. God doesn't shop at amazon. Yeah. But But he created. He did an eBay but other ones too. Just saying
Reverend Ben Cooper:the river. Yeah. But
Leya:how can you possibly justify also having a golden crucifix? You can't?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on? Sorry. We've
Leya:been there before.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We can't You can't be can you because then you'd be in any becomes idolatry than it because it talks about Aaron, that was down the base of the mountain, you know, talking about golden cars, we say come on. So you, let's melt your earrings as being a golden calf. So I saw that sort of stuff in it, you know, but it's nice to wear a cross Oh, isn't it just to let people know, you know, what, what's that cross mean? Well, to me that means it's not that I worship the jewelry, or the
Leya:worship the object, but I'm part of the club, but I'm part of
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Jesus club. And that cross reminds me that I have to hold that cross. And so fasn how Maris know, and all things like that. But it's nice. symbols are nice. But when the symbols are being lifted up in a religious and they're being lifted up higher than Jesus, that's when it becomes idolatry. So it tells us how to pray. Now, verse six of Matthew, chapter six is but when you pray, so he's talking to me, disciples, every one of us, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father who is unseen
Leya:now like that, just gonna pause you there. Pause, that it's about the difference between your father that scene, your dad? Yeah. And your father that's unseen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So now we're talking about faith.
Leya:Yeah. But by putting that in there, the Father and the Father. Yeah, it's the same. It's the same kind of love. Is that paternal love? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. So right. So we know. tronic is Saturday, you can chip stuff. We know when it talks about the father. He's talking about our Heavenly Father. So also, what he's saying is here is the hypocrites that stand in the synagogues, the street corners. They are they are praying for just notoriety and to be seen to do all this sort of stuff. That that is that. So what Christ is talking about 11,000 2400 years ago, it's still very prominent today. There's a lot of look at us. Prayer books, the way we say it, you know, putting on the voice, you know, putting on the very biblical voice.
Leya:Holy, holy, pray more than you I pray harder than you might be worthy than yours. That's what I love about this prayer. Because it's a universal prayer for anybody that doesn't know how to pray.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's one model one hit
Leya:bush.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I mean, it's like, yeah, it's just, it's just one God. One God. Yeah. It's like, um, so what he says is that when you pray, so he's given us clear instructions between the religious leaders, the authorities that like all the showmanship of religion and tradition, and everything that goes along with the pomp and ceremony of church, religion, you can see it just sticks outside. He pushes out completely two sides. Gone, but when you Right now Who's he talking to talking about someone that believes in him. So if I believe in the God of Israel, if I believe in the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the 66 books, and I'm, and we are born again, believers, and we are believing in God, this is how I should pray, doesn't mention anything about going into big prayer meetings. This is very personal. So he says, but when you pray,
Leya:especially looking at the words, so it could be something it's not born again, Christian, and I picked it up for the first time it might well be so it's been tragedy. No, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's fine. So so when you pray, sorry, but actually, he's, he's talking, and he's giving clear instruction to anyone that is a disciple. But obviously, yes, it goes on further than that to someone that might not be a believer, and is guided by the Holy Spirit and then suddenly opens a word and goes, wow, this is talking to me about prayer. Still talking to you.
Leya:Yeah. You did a sermon once. Once upon a time, in a little church in one day, you did a sermon. And you spoke about Yeah, you spoke about how this prayer is for anybody that doesn't know how to pray.
Reverend Ben Cooper:100%. So
Leya:and I think that harkens back to that thing of we learn it, we learn it when we're in play school, we learn it when we're in school, we learn it when we're in brownies, wherever, because it's the prayer this a universal prayer is the prayer that Yeah, anybody can get their teeth into anyone can do this. It covers everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It covers everything. But what you've got in this prayer is no showmanship like you would find in certain areas of what we call the church where you got shine, and all are in script that Ray, oh, you might have a dog outside the box or you're not a human being. But that's a strange moment that people believe me. That's a bit weird. So what we got here is that Jesus is saying, Look, it's not showing yourself to the world of Look how great and the grantor and I've got the pointy hat with a big cross. I've got the bling. I've got all the trappings of religion, the
Leya:prayer voice on the set. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I've got to pray harder than anybody else.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah.
Leya:To put on my prayer boys, play harder than anyone else ever has.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I come from Tunbridge Wells, but
Leya:God will answer my prayer over yours poor person. He's just saying, I went there. Sorry.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I live in Westminster. And I'm a better Christian, because I belong to the cathedral. When you belong to the Pentecostal movement, you shout and Allah and do what you're gonna do. Exactly. Right. Anyway, let's get serious. Now let's not, let's not get serious. So write verse six. And when you pray, clear instruction, as a believer, as someone that is seeking God, that has a desire and a want to praise His but when you pray, go into your room, no one is with you. So this is not about showmanship. So everything that Christ does is a complete polar opposite to what the church does. The church makes a massive song and dance about prayer meetings, all this and all that if you're not a church, you're not a prayer. If you're not there, you're not a pro. But Jesus says go on your own.
Leya:I think he made a bit of a sermon dance when he was at school when he was in school play. Yeah, but no, he does. He goes into the secret place I can tell
Reverend Ben Cooper:you check it out, try to keep it just like company said. But when you go pray,
Leya:go private place.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it says go into your room, close the door to your Father who is unseen. Now that's really important, as we was talking about your father who is unseen now, isn't it interesting that Christ makes a clear statement, your father who is unseen over the last number of months where we have been experiencing, especially in the in the world of America, the prophets, saying that they spend time with God. But the scripture says the Father who is unseen and the Bible says no one can see God and live.
Leya:Okay, yeah, that's the truth. Yeah, that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:true. But when you look at john, in Revelation, if you want to check yourself, check yourself up brothers and sisters read Revelation, that might be really happy. If he was to read Revelation, how john, John's experience of seeing the Son of man stood before him, he felt as if he was dead, because he's brilliant, His power, His glory was so bright, was too much for the human body to cope. So what I'm trying to say is Jesus makes a clear statement here. No one has seen God, God is unseen. So when you go into this place, you're not praying to a statue, you're not got a symbol you're praying. I think the audience understand when I say that you're praying into the air, there's no one into the into the
Leya:into the
Reverend Ben Cooper:Baby, you're praying not to assemble, you're not facing an object, you're not you're not lifting up a saint, you're not holding a rosary, you're not jumping up and down with prayer, but you're not going to staff and you're and you're going into a room where there is no one, no symbolism, nothing like that. You're just going in there and you're praying. And Christ emphasizes this to your Father who is unseen. So that makes prayer even more difficult. In a way, because and why I say that is every eyebrows
Leya:went up there and everyone cuz he went, eat. That's why he went and why I say that because my eyebrows went up. Because I
Reverend Ben Cooper:was like, and why I say that? is because when you're on your own, and you are in a crisis, and you are looking for an answer, and you are in a room praying that takes one thing, faith, yeah. So we're not in a auditorium, we're not in a church, when you got all your church shampoo, you're in a place where there's no one not only believe, so God is Christ, God, we know is, is laying out a very clear foundation that you don't need anyone else around you. But when you pray, go into your room and close the door and pray to the Father who is unseen, than your Father who sees what is done in secret. This is really important. It's done in secret. So I'm not going down a road and going God come on load this, this, this, this that that it needs prayer needs to be done in secret. Yeah, there's a time and a place for, for, I'd say corporate power of prayer and all that that's different. But that the main area of prayer is a private prayer.
Leya:It's hard. It's your heart, your heart. you're connecting with God's heart.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. But we are brought up in a culture of church where you have mass prayer meetings. And if you don't turn the turn up to the prayer meeting, you're not a prayer. But the scripture says the complete opposite, go into the quiet space, go into your room, close the door, when no one can hear you. No one knows what you're doing. And it can almost look like that that person doesn't pray, but what is done in secret, then we start to come on to a supernatural God only knows God only knows. See that that is what is so powerful. So it's not about so in one way, you could look at this, that if this is a tiny church, and there's only one or two of us, and we're just praying one or two, and one of us in the church. God does not answer prayers to according to the size of the prayer meeting. Yeah. Because the larger churches, you know,
Leya:yeah, well, what would that mean for the persecuted Christians around the world means
Reverend Ben Cooper:that means that their prayers would never know, because they're on their own gathered in a field one or two, or are completely on their own. So this covers so much here that this covers so much, even before you get on to the Lord's Prayer, he's given the disciples, he's given the audience, he's given those around him at this particular point, clear instruction, don't go and pray. Like them hypocrites. They're all noise. And that's what the church has been doing for so long. The church is all noisemakers, mouth and trousers. Yeah. When it's got no lead, and it's pencil.
Leya:They get no knickers, my friend. Oh, man.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a good way of putting. It's got no lead in the pencil. Yeah, big hat. Oh, no. Now we have seen the church in the UK is very thin spiritually. I know, I can't mention this. But we need to keep reminding us. So we can go hang on a minute. God does exist. God is real. But because the church has been all out and no knickers all show. And oh, yeah. That's a very theological way to put that, isn't it? Well, when we're getting a bit of trouble about that, but we'll worry about the email
Leya:will arise.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, come on. We got
Leya:it. Because the church has been that way for so long. That's why people have become disenfranchised from it,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think. Yeah, definitely.
Leya:And that's why and they believe that the church and God or faith are the same thing, but they're not. It's not they're
Reverend Ben Cooper:not the same family.
Leya:And that's what that's that says to me really clearly. Well, yeah, just
Reverend Ben Cooper:don't be like the hypocrites. Jesus says that this is not me as a vicar, Pastor, leader, whoever, whatever what label we label ourselves with. It says, This is Christ. And when you and when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. Now, where do you find hypocrites in religion?
Leya:capital capital, ah, I am. I have to keep saying this every time we do a podcast but I cannot believe how good that book is. The book is an awesome
Reverend Ben Cooper:book we need Bible. I know.
Leya:I can't believe that it's not sold in wh Smith and places like that. I can't believe that it's not the number one bestseller all the time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It is the number one bestseller around the world, but they put it down because you know what? The simple fact is that
Leya:religion? Yeah, if I were into this,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you'll find it there. But it's not
Leya:gonna be number one hardback of the week. Um, now of course,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it won't be airy, Spielberg, Harry Potter in
Leya:it. Yeah, every Spielberg
Reverend Ben Cooper:is good. It's all that stuff. But even within them, writers that write all them books, then authors that are earning fortunes cannot keep up. The print line cannot keep a book. book, it's the book that stolen the most burnt the most. For over the most
Leya:and smuggled to my
Reverend Ben Cooper:friend. Yeah, a friend.
Leya:That's what I was trying to get
Reverend Ben Cooper:to a certain part of the world
Leya:is that we're here right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So an idol. And the thing is, if the Bible wasn't, wasn't real, and it was a fairy story, why are places like Syria and Iran and all these places you're not allowed to walk down the street have a Bible? If I can walk down a row with Harry Potter be fine.
Leya:I love your little mime of walking down the road. We've
Reverend Ben Cooper:got my little spectacles on. But isn't it interesting that governments don't believe Yeah, in the Bible? But you cannot carry this book? Yeah. Because if you do, you're going to go to prison for a year. That's a starting point.
Leya:Well, what strikes me as odd is that I think it's in America, you can mention religion and in politics, etc. But you can't mention God in a school. And of course, you can't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's all sorts of things that happen. It's all over anyway, we
Leya:haven't even started on the pray yet. But Hello,
Reverend Ben Cooper:hey, you're jumping the gun a bit, one sec got back at it. Go back to six. I'll be fast. But I pray God in your room, close the door and pray to your Father who is unseen. Then the Father who sees what he's done in secret will reward you. We won't hang on that one. But there's a lot of things in that. Right. And it says and when you pray, do not keep on babbling like the pagans. Oh, this is this is Jesus. He has brought pagans and the hypocrites into this babbling babbling. How many people in church Sorry, I mean, how many people in certain buildings? Babel
Leya:or Babel pilot you're doing your sermon on a Sunday? I'm I made I made Anatolia Yes, yes, yes. Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Do you think Christ the Creator of the heavens on earth is used the word like that? Babel,
Leya:Babel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Babel. So what you're saying Jesus, don't keep going on about nothing you're babbling
Leya:on about don't keep going on a new pair of trainers or non stop because you're worshipping these false idols all the trappings of life when actually you should be could be praying about there could could be praying about helping other people or praying for other people's needs or listen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God then he says right. Let me back up right let me back up and this is verse seven and when you pray Do not be like the babbling pagans for they think they think they will be heard because of many words. Now that takes out the educators that takes out the pulpit of the motivational preachers and teachers,
Leya:okay is
Reverend Ben Cooper:all those ones that have got beautiful language, beautiful vocabulary speak so beautiful and wonderful. But when I come into the arena, different story, my vocabulary is very short and very sweet. And sometimes a little bit naughty for coming over the pulpit. But
Leya:God made those words and I'm not gonna babble.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So this says a lot. This is a lot. So firstly, he says, Don't get caught up in the hypocrites watching right? Don't get caught up in the approach don't get caught up there. Why the pagans babbling on and on and on. nIESR I can never get what they're asking for because they're serving foreign gods and then also says For they think they will be Because of many words, do not be like them. For your father knows what you need before you ask him.
Leya:Oh, it's beautiful.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Look. And then it says in verse nine through two, just for those that we ain't got time, it talks about hypocrites bit further down in verse 16. The talk goes on to about fast and as well, we ain't got chance to crack that. But for verse nine fasting that means you'd have to give up burgers and kebabs.
Leya:I was nearly lost not not this Bible study, but the week before, Clover so angry, nearly a table.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So I'm going to do what people say to me where I work and all the things like after they go see me walking around in the column they go, what are you giving up for Lent? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah, because we gotta be careful with that is it becomes a tradition, and I'll become a hypocrite. I'm giving up nothing. Yeah, because what I do is throughout the year, I do this when I feel led to do it. Now what we got to be careful of is that we don't follow the Christian. Or should I say the churchy worldly calendar aligns up with that biblical stuff. I get that and I'm not being disrespectful to the word. But we find because of the makeup of church that we will do Lent, because the calendar says length, and it has no length
Leya:for no other reason, then everybody else is doing Len,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because because it's but what is why are you doing it? There's no point in me doing it. Because Jesus has just said to me, if you keep praying, like the hypocrites, and if you keep babbling, they ain't gonna get nothing anyway. So there's no point in doing it unless what one thing your heart is rising. So if I was to go to someone in the areas of work that I work in chaplaincy and all that, and go, and they say to me, because it's always on the subject of Easter, we even wake him up. Nothing. If anything, I eat more. Eat more land, because my heart wouldn't be right. Yeah. So so people might go, Oh, that's wrong. That's your Oh, no, no, no, no, I do it throughout the year, when I feel God is prompting me for when there's a real purpose. Yeah, I'm not just gonna do and then I understand what the calendar and the way everything lines up. I get that. But also, it's no good doing it. If I'm just for the sake of doing it.
Leya:In the Bible. Does it say that you should do Len
Reverend Ben Cooper:Bolin? All right, going into that we know what it's about. It's about the it's talking about the given up on going through the temptation or that
Leya:is actually specific motion mirror those, the sacrifices that Jesus went through?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why kind of jumping across?
Leya:Yeah, exactly. Anyway,
Reverend Ben Cooper:anyway. But what's important is really important. I must say this, because we're talking about Lent, and giving up and all that. And that's a type of fasting in a random way. But Christ now is it again, as he always does, he lets him have it at the bag again, now's it. In chapter six that we're in verse 16, it says, but when you fast, do not be like, do not be some sambar, like the hypocrites do. For they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting,
Leya:I do that I'm sorry. I'm fast if I'm starving,
Reverend Ben Cooper:chocolate have given chocolate smashing me way through McDonald's like never before. Have give up a bar of chocolate, but I am just eating like a pig the rest of the time. Because when you go on a real fast, what is the point of fasting fasting is spiritual? Yeah. Then, in in the world of certain areas of church that I'm talking about is done for hypocritical reasons. For visual for sound.
Leya:And maybe there
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a production, it's Christmas, we'll pull into the Nativity kit. It's Easter, we'll pull your cross buns out. And we'll do a bit of Lent and I'll give it a bit of chocolate argue about this. I do it because my heart has to want to. And when I say that might sound strange want to when we talk about one two is hungry for Jesus, yeah. Because fasting is linked to spiritual activity. Yeah, if I fast because it's Len and the pastor and the Church of England and all that and all you have to learn they're telling you there's no point yeah, there's no point because it's it's an action that has no spiritual press. Yeah. Anyway,
Leya:odd stuff. But I
Reverend Ben Cooper:love that part because he says that and he says, Truly I tell you they have received their reward in full but when you Fast put all on your head, wash your face. So what is he saying? He says, when you fast you make yourself look
Leya:healthier. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, you're looking fresh, you're looking well. No, so no one doesn't see what really you're, you're not doing it to show off production. It's not production and mass production. You're doing it because maybe there's a crisis. Maybe you're looking for spiritual guidance, maybe you're looking for a deeper walk with God. So there has to be a purpose. There has to be a spiritual reason. Anyway, come on. It's sad. It's interesting. So then when he says in verse nine, it says, this, this then is how you should pray. So this has given me as a human being, so much power, to pray over principalities, to pray over dark situations, for supply, for sustenance, for financial, for for debt, reasons, as in forgiveness. It covers everything. So let's quickly have a quick read. It says, during a reading, or shall I read it
Leya:says, Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done. As earth as it is an alternate on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Okay, where did you get that one from?
Leya:I've got it from the Nivea. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:really interesting. Not not as interested in
Leya:lots of different versions. There's some American version, version
Reverend Ben Cooper:version. So we have to be very careful when we have to go back to the root, you have to go back because there are certain faiths that have extended the Lord's Prayer. We won't go into that in a moment because that's, that will say look, so let me so let's right so if I go to the King James, yeah, yeah. Okay,
Leya:I have got like, extra lines in there where I've put my own little bits of light.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, sure.
Leya:Where it says, By kingdom come, I'm pretty sure that that's like, revelations, just saying, because you've got that whole thing where all the angels go round, or the Sarah femmes just go around praising God all the time. And that's what's going to happen. That's what's going to happen. In the end, when Jesus defeats the devil. For the second time, it's going to be he the marriage of us, and Jesus, and then it's gonna be right across him. Oh, yeah. And then by kingdom come there was going to get a weapon. It's going to be awesome.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, God, yeah. Oh, gosh, makes me wake up. We're not talking about eschatology interrupt of the church are starting over.
Leya:No.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll get myself right. Just in case.
Leya:Yeah, right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Go on you Rachel version is a bit of a complicated route for Sadie. Now one, verse, verse nine. It says, After this manner, therefore, pre alpha, have a winner which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Leya:So the only word that's different is trespasses. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And then it says, For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive, oh, man, a trespass isn't the brown is version one. No.
Leya:What's that version? That King James?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Can James?
Leya:Sign it wrong? No, no, no, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:can we don't, we won't use that type of language.
Leya:I've been saying it in a different manner.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So then then we jump back to the an IV, if the NIV NIV. And then it says, This is how we should pray. Then our Father in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. Then there's a bit of an add on, isn't there?
Leya:felonious, the kingdom?
Reverend Ben Cooper:The power and the glory forever and ever. Amen. Amen. Where that come from?
Leya:Well, that's a bit I've always been told to say that. I mean, to be honest with you, this is probably from them radio bit as well, but no, no, not since I was since I was Yeah, it was always the trespasses bit because I had to ask somebody, yeah, what does trespasses mean? And Shall I tell you who taught me this? Tina to change as well, yes. I remember coming back from brownies and saying it and she taught me what it meant.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow. Yeah.
Leya:Because I didn't know what trespassed man. So she taught me what trespass meant. Okay, on the way back from KFC one night
Reverend Ben Cooper:right now, our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as in heaven, Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debtors, as we also have forgiven our debtors, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen. Man, has that added on? who aren't going to the death for that
Leya:was man added on?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Paul deliver us from evil For thine is the kingdom the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Leya:A man has put in a bow on and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. No, no, no, no,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you got no, let me read it again. Right says this is how you should pray. Right. Let me let me go back to the King James. Cuz I'm just reading from the Catholic edition as well.
Leya:Sunday. Even on a Sunday, we all say, trespasses.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We do. You gotta be careful, you don't say out of religious purposes. So this is really, really important. So if I was to go to
Leya:my brain graph on
Reverend Ben Cooper:a nice Saturday, don't worry, the chips are bumbling nice. It says our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Your kingdom come Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts as debt sorry, as we forgive our debtors, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one for your kingdom, the power and the glory forever and ever. Our mess. Well, I've got that's what I've got. That's why but there's an add on. So there is a religious order that has added on to that as well. So if so now it says to change the word about now the Bible says that. So it's really important that when I say the Lord's Prayer, it does it come from the Bible. So if you were to do a Google search, you will find there are other versions,
Leya:random American versions. Oh, yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It would talk about myself.
Leya:about Trump, who are in Trump land. How could I be that Trump?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's, it's really, really important. No, no, no, it's really important that I check. I check. And I check the versions. That's how important it is that what Scripture says,
Leya:Yeah, but those versions that we went through there, the only bit that actually changes is the word trespasses.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So if we have to go to let's go to the King James, let's read that one. Again. It's a really interesting study is to study the Lord's Prayer, it's best if you could print them all off, lay them side by side. And a word check in a word count currency with
Leya:I mean, trespasses. That's a big word in it. And debts are just to be honest with you, from somebody who likes words is I like the I like the I like the rhythm of trespasses. You don't think it's a nice? poetic? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cuz I was thought it was when I was young, it was always just a poem to me. Now, I know that it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:pure and beautiful. And that's another thing. Isn't it? Another issue in this that we don't say it, because we can say it. And we can say it so many times, time and time and time and time and time again. I don't know how many times I've said this prayer. Yes. What do I mean it when I say it?
Leya:I know exactly what you're saying. There is a parrot fashion. I wrote. At the end of church, yes. The Lord's Prayer done. And then people just get up and say it, and then they're done.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sometimes. So there is talking about the hypocrites.
Leya:I mean, when we do when you say a prayer, that relates to what's happening,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, yeah, having read this, having read this, I can see Wow, this is this is prayer. Yeah. And if Christ has given us this, this is how you should pray then. Yeah. If you take a line, you took it line by line, and you've done a full study on this prayer. This is so powerful, yet so powerful, but man has added in over the years, it's taken away, little bits and pieces. So I have to just When people talk about the Lord's Prayer, I've got to, I've got to come back to the biblical reference. Because there's, it's been adapted and knocked about and changed. But it is, it is so easy and simple to say. It can become a poem, it can become a recital, it can become a robotic process that I'm going through, it's the end of the service. Let's say this. It said a lot in funerals. It said a lot in church services, it's read out a lot, time and time and time and time again,
Leya:all the time. The thing is, you say, like, we could go through it line by line, but actually, that's what sort of dude because when we were doing when I was doing the research for it, I wasn't doing the research, I was just looking at this, this prayer. And all of a sudden I saw these things I thought, wow, that that in this bit about Thy will be done. So to me that relates maybe it's because we did it a few weeks ago, but Thy will be done says to me, be still and know that I'm God. And also father that the battle belongs to the Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, for
Leya:for he has that was the one about the plans
Reverend Ben Cooper:for if plans. Jeremiah 29 verse 11 gone now this is really important. We don't stop at verse 11. We continue to renew it for the first for
Leya:always continue it for Oh God. Oh, Messiah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he put me on the spot.
Leya:I was like it when you say it's better than me saying it because I go, the one about the plans. But you know, for I know the plans that I have for you
Reverend Ben Cooper:plans on. That's it for another plans I have for you declares the Lord plans not to harm you, but to give you a hope and a future. If you follow me, follow me with all your heart, bang, done it bit paraphrasing, but there we go.
Leya:So that's what that's what me Yeah, that will be done, that will be done. I've got no but what
Reverend Ben Cooper:is thy will? And it's also worth that Father that
Leya:bit with Jesus, when you say your will not mine.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. Do you know i mean will of the Father. So what is pillco? What is the will of the Father, the will of the Father is written from Genesis to Revelation, the will of that is that is the whole everything that he for, will be done
Leya:for words encompassing all of that,
Reverend Ben Cooper:for what is that? Everything that is godly? Do it everything under the sun? That is from God?
Leya:Yeah. Do it, do it, live it,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thy will be done. His Will his purpose, His good pleasure
Leya:on earth as
Reverend Ben Cooper:it is in heaven. Now this is a big old, this is a big old prayer.
Leya:But I want to talk about is Give us this day our daily bread. So we've got the bit this cast your bread upon the wall. But for me, that Give us this day our daily bread is not actually about food. It's about faith. Because to me, my food is my faith. Okay. And I remember speaking to somebody at the beginning of the lockdown, and they were saying but you know, people are asking me to survive without going to church or praying or Yeah, my work colleagues aren't taking it seriously. important to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah,
Leya:I said to them, yeah, but this is our bread. This is our daily bread
Reverend Ben Cooper:on what they got for the Israelites. manna manna from heaven manna from heaven. Does the scripture say Man does not live on bread alone?
Leya:Also unleavened the unleavened bread
Reverend Ben Cooper:so I think it's
Leya:about I don't think it's about the the physical presentation of food from God. Okay, human beings, I think about five
Reverend Ben Cooper:about five about as Interesting. Interesting.
Leya:Yeah, might be wrong.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So our father feeling in heaven, very, very powerful line that is hallowed be your name. Holy is Your Name Your holy
Leya:name of
Reverend Ben Cooper:God. Let me get the guitar. I've got no strings on it. Good job. cost a bits of wood with a string on to me with a hole in it.
Leya:Is that like, because Hello? Do you say you say God is a jealous God and He wants you to love him? Is that what that's about? Hello means to be holy. Yes. Hello, hello.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah.
Leya:So it's like, you God, you're the one yeah, that worshiping shall not worship. Thou shalt not worship the guy right? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He got it right. No means Put your hands over your mouth. so generous God. Yeah. Well, the scriptures are enormous and they is enormous
Leya:now just off the top of their head.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Then you got to be careful. So, if people have a very powerful memory, very photographic memory can remember numbers can remember is not me, not me, but so. So then you have to be careful of just because I can remember it. Do I? Do I live it? And do I understand
Leya:the truth? So just just possess words. Yeah, do I?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Am I just a wordy? Am I just a wordy wormy person that just can remember Can I see some people can just can retain anything in their mind and they can just read it.
Leya:Yeah, but not that person. Not bla bla bla.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Anyway, anyway, Father in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name your kingdom. Come on, Lord, that big is big. That is your will be done. And I will come this very light on the surface because most of theologians would spend 10 minutes looking it Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Wow. revelations again. Wow. Give us today our daily bread.
Leya:So I think it's about five. What do you think that's about? What do you think that's about? Do you think it's about cost your bread on the water? Well, that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:the way you talk about cash bread upon what his return? Yeah. You're talking about, you know, you gotta be careful with the old compassion and love with the preachers and the teachers that use a context that we're using for financial gain. Yeah, and in the opposite, it talks about bringing, put your time in the storehouse and bring it to one place. So when you cast your bread, so you cost in your life, you're costing you, your money, you're costing your bread, bread is food, that bread is everything. So when the Bible talks about bread, you got to understand what context is.
Leya:My Lord shall supply all of
Reverend Ben Cooper:my god and
Leya:i got to supply all my needs according to his riches in glory.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, no, that's another text that can take context. Oh, is
Leya:that so? That's
Reverend Ben Cooper:easy to shout about? Yeah, I just did it. He did. Yeah, he did. Shop. I
Leya:became wordy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He kind of wordy.
Leya:But is that what that is like? Well,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't think so. Yeah, I think so. When it says, give us their daily bread, spiritual food. Five, because you could look at that and go, is it is it easy support, but then we say God shall supply all our needs according to his riches in glory. So God is going to feed me God is going to look after me. And he says, Why are you worried about tomorrow? Look at for today? Why look at the way the birds of the look at the way that is spin. They they don't worry about nothing. So what am I going to worry about? Break? Give us today? Daily Bread,
Leya:if we know that as well, that is going to supply us with those things. We don't have to worry about that love of money. That comes their way. But that's what I think it's about.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's all about it. If God gives it
Leya:to us, then we don't have to worry about we don't have to worry about it. Which means we don't have to worship the money in order to have all these gains and get takeaway.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Deep, deep stuff we can do. So. Come on, let's just read this through
Leya:and forgive us our trespasses debts.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, forgive us our debts as we forgive those who? debtors. So that was pretty much a tough one in it.
Leya:See, when I went for the trespass as well, and I thought that was about luck. Yeah, that thing that we were talking about, love thy neighbor. Love one another since Yeah, forgive the people. you forgive me?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What's that? So you've forgiven me so I've got forgive others? Yes, power of forgiveness, the power of redemption on a given date. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us and lead us not into temptation. For the flesh is white. Jesus wouldn't do that to us what a flesh is weak. He would not lead us into that. But isn't it interesting when you talk about the wilderness experience? You talk about Lynn and what the Church says and it says that Jesus in Luke chapter four, Jesus was baptized in the River Jordan. He was full of the Holy Spirit and He was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be to be attempted. And also
Leya:he said to Simon Simon, devil is asked if you can sift you for his fingers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, this is getting too much from
Leya:it. That'd be a bit. That bit, a little bit there about the sifting through the fingers that proper sends shivers up my spine.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So he could sift you over body and Jesus went, I've prayed for you
Leya:now pray for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well think Hang on a minute. That's good enough.
Leya:Yeah, exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That Do me a treat? Yeah. Religious non temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. We aren't going to give him no airplay. Yeah.
Leya:Mary Magdalene naki did that the devil is a liar.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come on, come on. We've run out of time.
Leya:Now. Come on, we've got three more lines for the audience, the kingdom,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the power and the glory
Leya:forever and ever.
Reverend Ben Cooper:More than finishes on? So my one in verse 13, it says, And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
Leya:So why doesn't it say us as a kingdom? So for those the kingdom and the power and the
Reverend Ben Cooper:glory? another subject another time? Yeah, another world. But that's the
Leya:that is the one that we say in church. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. We love Jesus. We love Jesus loving, we'll carry on, we carry this on You have been listening to you listen to ourselves, Reverend Benjamin. Annika, we're just this now that we've got it is very clear. Now I want to finish this. This is very light and very gentle. We're just chatting. We are not going into deep theological stuff. For anyone out there. We just chat and we're just chatting about it and just stop by.
Leya:So I just want to say that's it. I will say end of the pray. Oh, man, as you pray, that's your prayer for life. Say that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:In all seriousness, you know, the Lord's prayer that there is so much power and authority in that is so powerful the Lord's Prayer. So if anyone's out there looking to pray, and often we cinematic and that's another thing that we haven't really touched is in church, we get a lot of people that can really babble high pagans as the script I didn't say, like speaking
Leya:in tongues, though, that's not the main but what? No, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:but what that what that can do to someone is if someone is shy and not as flamboyant, as me, oh, me on me. You know what I mean? That now that I found it quite don't end when I first came here to pry out now, church has made it in a way that if you don't pray out, you're not saved. If you don't pray out, you don't really love Jesus, when actually the scripture that we very, very briefly just touched over. He said, Go and do it.
Leya:In groups, I find it really daunting.
Reverend Ben Cooper:acquires a pile of stuff. I've never asked anyone that I know, will shrink back. I have learned and it's not easy to do that.
Leya:I know that that that is that is my relationship with God. And it's, it's not that it's private. It's just, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:sacred. No. And there are certain times when I will go up to people and say, Look, is it can you pray for the offering today? Yeah, of course I will. So I always ask the person, I don't go. And we're gonna ask Leah to close in prayer in the audience, in his auditorium filled with 1000 people, I think,
Leya:cuz now I'd go. But then
Reverend Ben Cooper:Christ is making this really clear. It's not about making your voice in public. It's about doing it quietly. So for all those out there that have thought to themselves, I don't pray out in church, there must there's nothing wrong with with not praying out in church, because it's not lip service. And it's not. And the hypocrites, he's talking about the pagans, babbling, going on, and on and on and on and on and on. You know, so this is really important that it's not about making a noise in church. It's about being at home. just praying quietly, in your car in that place, when there's no one else is not making a racket in in with public pate with people around you in the public arena. Because that is got that has its place to a very tiny degree, but is very important to decide. don't
Leya:pray like pagans and don't pay a lot pray like hypocrites, not saying that those people are pagans, or that they are hypocrites. It's just, some people are like,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I would say, I know what you're gonna say. But I want to call it a day, I won't say.
Leya:But I don't want people that pray really hard and quite loudly. That's what we
Reverend Ben Cooper:want, but then people will understand what we're talking about trif by okay, right. Anyway,
Leya:take this prayer, put it in your pocket, say in the morning, you'll feel better.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yep. Good. Thank you so much. And please, this is really important. We are just talking very, very lightly, very lightly, we are just discussing. We you know, everything needs to be found out and looked at and discussed, you know, in Scripture. So we just chat and just put things out there and see what we can find just chatting. just turning around random mics, even listening to life. Jamie Dimon listened to Reverend Ben Cooper, thank you so much for joining us here on this podcast. This day Saturday, you will find us on Spotify. Apple Music
Leya:iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Bush
Reverend Ben Cooper:and in the caf and in the care. Have a great day, stay safe. May God bless you wherever you are. And please, please remember we are not being flippant. We are just chatting lightly and just being relaxed in the Lord's house. And what's really important is that that prayer, that prayer is the most powerful is prayer. On a rainy day, so beautiful. May God bless you. In Jesus name, amen.
