Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Reverend Ben Coopers podcast, offers an inviting space for listeners to explore Christianity and spiritual growth with wisdom, humor, and a deep commitment to biblical truth. Through Rev. Ben's engaging conversations with guests, the podcast not only explores the timeless wisdom of the Bible but also tackles the pressing issues of life, faith, and hope in a way that is accessible, thought-provoking, and enriching. Whether you’re seeking spiritual nourishment, answers to life’s big questions, or simply a place to reflect on your faith, the Rev Ben podcast is a valuable resource on your journey.
In each episode, Rev. Ben guides listeners through profound theological reflections, personal stories, and practical insights drawn from the Bible and the broader Christian tradition.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
The Man Christ Jesus - Part 1 - (CST1)
Title: The Carpenter King – Rediscovering the Humanity of Jesus
When was the last time you stopped and truly contemplated this astonishing truth: the Creator of the universe worked with His hands as a carpenter for thirty years before beginning His public ministry?
In this deeply reflective episode, we pull back the layers of religious tradition and sanitized imagery to rediscover the authentic humanity of Jesus Christ. Long before miracles, sermons, and the cross, Jesus was a worker—a tradesman shaped by sweat, routine, and the dust of daily life.
Simon and Ben challenge modern church culture’s tendency to elevate charisma over character, often placing untested individuals into leadership roles far too early. Yet Jesus—fully God—chose to live in obscurity and preparation, learning carpentry under Joseph, experiencing family life, and walking through everyday challenges just like us. “He wasn’t manufactured within the church,” one host declares. “He was a worker. A man of the people.”
This episode paints a vivid picture of the formative years of Christ—growing up in a home with brothers, a stepfather, and townspeople who questioned His legitimacy. We reflect on Joseph’s perspective, raising the Son of God while living in quiet faith, and what it must have felt like to see Jesus perform miracles and ultimately carry a cross.
Drawing from Isaiah 53, the hosts explore how Jesus was not physically impressive—“no beauty or majesty to attract us to him.” This is a powerful reminder that the Savior of the world wasn't glamorous—He was real, relatable, and rooted in a fully human experience. “He’d be wearing rough old boots,” they suggest—not robes of gold or the polished look of Hollywood portrayals.
This conversation invites listeners to reimagine Jesus not just as divine, but deeply human—a man who knows your labor, your weariness, your obscure seasons, and your long waits. It’s in this dual reality—God in flesh—that we find the Savior who truly understands what it’s like to be us.
If you’ve ever felt unseen, unready, or misunderstood in your calling, this episode reminds you that even Jesus spent years in quiet preparation. You are not forgotten—you are being formed.
Jesus the carpenter reflection, humanity of Christ podcast, Isaiah 53 Jesus appearance, working-class Jesus explained, preparation before ministry podcast, biblical view of Jesus’ childhood, Jesus and Joseph relationship, Christ’s obscurity before miracles, labor and calling in Scripture, Jesus wore work boots not robes, spiritual formation through work, rediscovering Jesus’ humanity
https://www.pastorbencooper.co.uk/
https://www.rbchristianradio.net/
Good morning. We're in the house of the Lord. The Lord has let us in. The Lord has let us in. The church has rejected us, but Jesus has let us in the house of the lord. The lord has let us in. The lord has let us in. The church has rejected us, but jesus has let us in the building. It's hashtag christian straight talk.
Speaker 1:Wherever you are across the world, whatever your time zone is today, we thank you so much for joining simon and myself as we gather across the mics. And wherever you are, god is with you. We, I say all the time when I, whenever we're online or whatever, we are really living in really powerful times. The glory of god is shining across this earth. The world is is buckling under the weight of what is coming its way. You know, but god is for you. Do you know that you're saved? Do you know that you're a believer? Where do you sit in this world? God is with you. But we're going to look at a story this morning. It's the greatest story that has ever been told simon. What is that story?
Speaker 2:better. Look at the story of jesus uh ben, and you know some powerful things you was, you were mentioning there, but I had to hold back a minute. It is the man, fully man, fully god is the man, fully man, fully God. He's the man that can lead us through all that. He can lead us through all of that nonsense, and so he's got such an amazing story. We're going to struggle to get it all in in the 40, 45 minutes that we've got this morning, but we'll pull out some decent points. But it's great to be with you back again across the mics. It's been a really interesting week over there in Essex, where I come from, and it's great to be back in God's country, isn't it, you know, kent as it were, Swanley.
Speaker 1:Yes, the Lord is in Swanley.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Jesus for coming to Swanley.
Speaker 1:Alive and well and pushing his shopping all the way down from Aldi to Tesco.
Speaker 2:Well that's the truth, ben. You know, if the Lord was to come back right now, he'd be walking around in places like Swanley, wouldn't he 100%? So you know he wouldn't be walking around in some of the other areas, but he'd be talking and showing love and compassion and talking to people who were, you know, coming out of. Asda and whatever. Do you know?
Speaker 1:Wilco's, yeah, riding around with a trolley, around with a trolley. I've just typed in I'm going to jump onto Simon before he quickly says it. I've just typed in Jesus right into the Google search engines. Do you know what's come up? The football players. No, yeah, look Look at the iPad. I've just typed in Jesus.
Speaker 2:Wow, jesus, they call him, don't they?
Speaker 1:They call him Jesus yeah, isn't it interesting that the scripture says there's many Jesuses but there's only one king? Yeah, when you think where we sit in the time, as soon as you say the school kids, anyone of a certain generation, who's jesus? He's that. He's that tottenham, but he's that player, isn't he? He's, he's the. He's the footballer, is he, you know? So there's this conversation not around the king of kings and the lord of lords, but around, isn't it interesting that where we sit in the end times, that there are idols being made that carry certain aspects of life that are really meaningless. So when you type in Jesus, I need Jesus, what do I get? I get a football star, when actually I'm going to die, who's going to help me?
Speaker 2:It's interesting you say that, what you said there, and before we get into the meat of this, I read a quote the other day from someone who was a godly man, I forget who he was. He said wouldn't it be a tragedy if you spent your life being a success at something that don't matter Exactly? You know what I mean. So if you strived all your life to be a success at something that don't matter Exactly, you know what I mean. So if you strived all your life to be a success at something that don't really matter and is meaningless you know, imagine going up to heaven and the Lord's there and going oh, what did you do?
Speaker 2:Oh, I was a governor of the Bank of England. Sorry, what did?
Speaker 1:you do? Oh wow Well. We've never seen governor of the Bank of England. Sorry, what did you do?
Speaker 2:Oh wow Well we've never seen one of them in here before. We've never. I was a lawyer, I was a defence lawyer.
Speaker 1:I was a superstar, I was a performer. Oh, did you work in a church? No, I worked in Hollywood. Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, oh well, worked in hollywood? Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, oh well. So the word jesus, yeah, this work, this god dear, makes your way. I'm presenting it's not very good. You know jesus, the king of kings and the lord of lords, and the scripture says that that god gave him the name above every other name. At the name of jesus, every knee shall bow. Isn't it interesting what happens through idol worship, through these stars and there's a few called Jesus Humanity bows down to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, and we've done a chapter in our Christian Strike Talk book, or Men's Talk, on the perception of Jesus, which is really interesting, because you will find his name being used more and more as a curse word. And that's the truth. Yeah, yeah, and every new movie that comes out, every documentary, every series, it's used as a curse word, an exclamation or whatever, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's where we are at the moment, and it's not getting easier. It's not getting any, and no one's standing up and calling it profanity, which is what it is, isn't it? It certainly is they shall not take the Lord, god's name in vain. So there's a real danger around all that. But the true Jesus is what we're talking about today. If you look in in the the gospel of john, right to start, ben, what's it say right to start?
Speaker 1:he played for tottenham. Oh, sorry, sorry, wrong bible, sorry wrong bible. The gospel I gotta be serious, come on, the gospel makes it really clear, didn't't it In the beginning, in the beginning, in the beginning. So if you just take that first line in the beginning, straight away we have creation. Who do we find at the beginning? The Word In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Is it about verse 14? I haven't got the scripture in front of me. It says and John said and the word became flesh. Very interesting that the word became and not the word birth, because he was always in existence To become. You're already here. So he just chose the vehicle of Mary to present himself to humanity. So he was already in the beginning, beginning. But suddenly the word became flesh. And in the book of colossians I believe it's very clear, and about chapter one it says christ is the image of the invisible god you're right, you're, you're bang on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, colossians 115. Yeah, he's the image of the invisible, invisible, invisible God. That's the truth.
Speaker 1:So we understand that Christ is the image of the invisible God, but also in that theological language that's out there, he is also God.
Speaker 2:And so we'll have a look at that. And a lot of people find that difficult to get there. It is very difficult to grasp. So he was born. He was born a man. He was born. He wasn't. You know he was. It was an immaculate conception, which means there was no physical interaction for him to be born and he had to be born of a virgin. Why?
Speaker 2:Because of what his destiny was going to be, because he was a perfect man and you know, he was brought up with Mary and Joseph in their household. And we don't read a lot about that, do we? And we certainly don't read a lot about the time when he was a carpenter, because he, you know, when you look at that, when you look at it, he spent 30 years, didn't he?
Speaker 1:In a household of brothers, mum and dad. Yeah, he was displaced because you can imagine the tongues would have spoke that Jesus. You know that Jesus. Is he really Joseph? So you can imagine where he was birthed and what happened and all the conversation that was going on. So here we have the King of Kings, the creator of heaven and earth, being birthed into a society that rejected him straight away. Imagine being his brothers. When his brothers actually realised who he really was, I gave him a night in one day, oh my goodness. I wrestled with G oh my goodness, do you know what? Because this would have happened.
Speaker 1:They would have wrestled and fought together, grown up together.
Speaker 2:He was. We know him as the perfect person, so he could never have been naughty, could he? So you know he probably didn't get a backhand from his dad or his stepdad or whatever you don't know, we don't know that do we?
Speaker 1:But being a young man, being a young man brought up in that culture, in that society. But the Bible says he's gone through every temptation, he's gone through everything. So he must have experienced sibling rivalry and all that sort of stuff and different stuff. So when you look at Jesus, the perfect man, the perfect king, the perfect son, perfection wrapped up in this skin that we know as Christ, jesus, Perfect, the living word, all creation, everything, if we could see Jesus now, but he's God, isn't he? But he's God, he's God. When you look at this, this size, of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so interesting, because we was just rambling and talking a bit before we got into this, and you were saying, weren't you? And you made a really good point that the church, oh, we'll mention the church again, Ben, oh, hang on that word that dirty word. The church just clambers after youth workers. Yes, youth workers who have never experienced anything of life, no Right, and they want to pay them a wage to teach their children, but they've never experienced anything of life. Look, jesus didn't jump into ministry at 19, did he?
Speaker 1:No, not even at 16, 17. 30, 33 years, when you look at the biblical stretch, his ministry was only three years. There wasn't an advert in the paper for him, was there? We're looking for a youth worker. We'll pay you 25 grand. He didn't write a book, did he? He didn't write a book. He didn't wear skinny jeans, he didn't know. So when you look at this, when you look at so, who do I look to? I always look to jesus. Can we say he's our role model? Can we use that, that type of terminology? He's my god, he's my king, he's the great I am. So I look to him. So even in ministry. So christ, when his ministry began around about when he was about 30, that wasn't the age of these. The youth pastors are normally retiring at 29, 30. They've done it haven't they?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they've been there, done it. They've been there, done it. They've moved on, haven't they? They've written a couple of books.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they've finished, I'm done, I'm out, I'm gone. Jesus' ministry never started until he was 30. Just over 30. So when you look at that, that is the pattern. And he'd been a carpenter, he'd been a tradesman and he'd gone to work. Imagine telling a youth pastor to go to work. Do?
Speaker 2:you imagine who made your roof? A guy called Jesus.
Speaker 1:Did he need a scaffold? No, he was just hovering.
Speaker 2:It's the best roof I've ever had. Best roof I've ever had. Best roof I've ever had.
Speaker 1:And he just spoke and tiles come and formation. He just spoke and just trees cut themselves in half. He didn't have a saw in his pocket. Who made that table? A guy called Jesus. He just spoke it. Wow, but that's the that's what he was doing.
Speaker 2:He was a carpenter.
Speaker 1:He went to work as a carpenter. He worked with his dad, he was a tradesman, he was taught a skill. But if you look at the majority of youth pastors, they have been taken from the crib too early, the Moses basket out of the reeds and put into a pulpit before they've even been fed milk.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. That's a great point and it's a. It's a great point, ben. And then after that, we they will probably transition into being a church leader or a you know whatever, but they've had no experience of no, they haven't.
Speaker 1:They've had no light. So when? So when you look at the life of christ, the earlier life of christ, he, he went to work. He was a tradesman. He used his physical body. He got up, he had his breakfast, he went to work. He lived in a household, he had brothers. He was trained as a tradesman. He knew what it was like to work in all aspects of weather. He was a worker. He was a worker. He was a worker, he went to work.
Speaker 2:He was a blue-collar worker, yeah, definitely. And so he used his hands and he would have experienced everything, everything and people you know well, were they downing him or whatever they did? But he had to go through all of that. But you know, and this is the man right this, is. This is the man who the destiny of the whole world.
Speaker 1:Was on, was on. This is the one that was at Genesis, chapter 1. Can you believe it? Can you try? Can you believe it when you actually put this together, when you study Christ, when you look at it. Believe it when you actually put this together when you study christ, his early life, his early life before ministry, what he went through. Imagine that jesus bring your washing down, will you he? He lived in a house. He lived in a normal house. You know, you can imagine. You know breakfast, tea time, lunch time, all that. There is nothing that he hasn't experienced. He has experienced everything. The Bible makes that very clear and what I love about the scripture is that his ministry didn't start until he was at that right age. So there is a really important part to ministry and leaders that the ministry, yeah, you might have the calling, you might have an anointing, you might have a drawing, but you have to wait. See, jesus only moved when God said now it's time. So we've got so much in this Jesus story.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah because he only did what the Father told him. So he was fully connected to the father at all times.
Speaker 1:So his ministry only started, so we don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he must have took himself off, had quiet time with his father, you know, and then got on with his job and all the time he was being connected to the father.
Speaker 1:And that time he went missing. That time he went missing. Where was he? He was found in his father's house. That time he went missing. Where was he? He was found in his father's house.
Speaker 2:We don't know the people that he ministered to or spoke to All of that 30 years. Imagine.
Speaker 1:Imagine following Jesus and, as he said, look if everything was written down. There's not enough books, there's not enough paper. You can't record everything that has gone on. But what is fascinating is the life of jesus. Jesus's story to me, before his ministry really began, is him growing up as a young man, as a tradesman, you know, living with his brothers, going through the seasons of life, going through adulthood.
Speaker 2:And here's a deal. Ben, imagine he lived at home when he was 30.
Speaker 1:Look at, now they're trying to get mortgages, they're trying to do this, trying to do that, but look at this.
Speaker 2:If he was a young man, say young teenager like barely 20. Yeah, yeah, then fishermen would just have looked at him and gone on your bike mate, do one On your bike mate. No, he could tell by his hands he was a worker. You could tell by his demeanour he knew how to speak to these fellas, he knew how to connect. And they looked at him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If he was a teenager. So why that's such an interesting question? Why is the church putting so much standing in young teenage, early 20s people to be youth leaders when they've had absolutely no experience? And why are parents entrusting their children to these youth leaders when they probably don't even know what's going on in the youth group? It's an interesting, really interesting, because I've spoken and people have rang me up can you come and speak at our youth group? I said yeah, of course. Oh, he's a great youth leader. You walk in there and it's chaos. It's chaos and all the parents have done they're dumping their kids for a couple of hours. It's a babysitting service.
Speaker 1:It's a babysitting service. It's all the church. I won't say all the church, I'll say a mass percentage of the church within the UK has created a babysitting service, a kindergarten, and this guy oh, he's such a I can't see it.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I can't see it because no one's sitting down. Oh, you come to this. Great, we've got a great youth group going on in this big church they're playing snooker, playing darts, it's worse than that this big church Playing snooker, playing darts gaming.
Speaker 1:They're playing rap music on it it's so loud, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't remember someone I don't know if it was you the week or week before I had so many conversations with people. They said it's quite interesting what I've done here, that I scrubbed all the youth ministry away, stripped everything back, because I felt god was saying just just bring everybody under the same uh, sound of the gospel, just preach the gospel. And since we've been doing that, we've had parents actually coming to us and saying do you know what? My children have been asking questions about what you've been sermonizing, what you've been talking about, and it's quite interesting, they haven't. They haven't picked up their ipad, they've been sitting still listening to what is being delivered from the pulpits. So we are living in a time when children need the word of God because they're going to school and they are getting you can be any gender, you can be anything you want to do and they're not getting Jesus. The only Jesus they get is the footballer.
Speaker 2:Christianity is just another religion, isn't it? But you know, I've got a mate, a big Tony, up in Barnet and they've got a good church that's going on out there and he's in his 40s, tony, and he's got a gardening business and he's seen life completely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's the youth leader up there and he sits them down and he tells them about life, yeah, and he just gives it to them straight, you know, and they're coming out of there with a really grounded knowledge. But if you're just a young….
Speaker 1:If you're coming out of the Moses basket…. If you're coming out of the Moses basket, yeah, you've got no…. Look, when that great prophet of God anointed, anointed the king of Israel, david. David went back to the wilderness for a long time. He didn't go into youth ministry. He was anointed and he was sent back. It's the same with Christ. Christ was called, christ is the living word, but he had to live. He had to live, then he had to die, but he was still anointed.
Speaker 2:That's a great point you've made, and you make great points all the time. But that's a great point you've made, because, paul, where did Paul go once he had his conversion? Where did he go? I wonder where he went? He went to Arabia, didn't he? He went to Arabia for three or four years just to get so into the knowledge. So he was fully immersed in it.
Speaker 1:So what we have? We have an issue. So when you look at Christ, the story of Christ, the story of Christ opens up so much. We have creation, we have the birth, the death, the resurrection, and also we have eschatology.
Speaker 2:We have the birth, the death, the resurrection, and also we have eschatology.
Speaker 1:We have the power of the word of god. So when we talk about the story of jesus, I can't believe it.
Speaker 2:We're 20 minutes in 20 minutes in and we're like this is too big.
Speaker 1:The story of jesus is too big because when you say jesus. So what is he? He's the creator of, creator of the heavens and the earth. He's the king of above all kings. He's the great I am. He's the air that we breathe. He's the first, he's the last I'll tell you what we should do.
Speaker 2:We should play that, dr Lockridge, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's fantastic, isn't it.
Speaker 2:He's my king. You know he's my king. Do you know him?
Speaker 1:Do you? We play that because I might be able to get hold of that. Yeah, later on. Yeah, we'll play that before we, just before we go, because we're trying, we're trying to do something, or even next week or something, I'll have it ready to go next week because that, when you, when you said let's look at the jesus story, and we said 45 minutes, straight away, we're going, we're lying already because it's taken 6 000 years for the. So we're not. So you're not even off the bat, we're only talking. No, you can't. You could do a whole life study on Jesus and you will never come to a full stop and go. We've got him wrapped up, because he's the beginning of time. He created the solar system, he created the heavens and the earth Because, as Simon said, in the beginning was the heavens and the earth, because, as Simon said, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh. So he is all creation.
Speaker 2:So when people, it just really makes me smile and annoys me at the same time. When people say is it time to jettison the Old Testament? Oh no, Because, Jesus is on every page because he's the word. He's the word, he's on every page and everything in the Old Testament leads to the known.
Speaker 1:And what have we got amongst all this? The cross, oh we. So you've got everything about.
Speaker 2:He's the redeemer.
Speaker 1:He's the one that went to the cross. He's the saviour, he's the redeemer. He's the one that went to the cross. He's the saviour. He's obedience, he is complete obedience to the Father's will. He is the great I am. Jesus Christ is the king above all kings. The story of Jesus.
Speaker 2:He's the salvation and he's the leader to the Father. You know, we owe him everything, absolutely. Don't we Ben. We owe him everything. Praise the Lord for Jesus.
Speaker 1:He's sitting with us right now. He's sitting with us right now. He's with you Wherever you are across the world. Christ is with you. Christ saved you. Christ stretched out from the heavens above when you was in your darkest hour of need, and God sent his Son to die upon the cross. He's the redeemer of the world. He's your savior.
Speaker 2:If you've accepted him as your Lord and savior, you're never without him. This is enormous.
Speaker 1:That's why we've got to play that thing at some stage. We'll make a real serious effort and get that in Well maybe we'll have to spread this podcast over two sessions, because Maybe three, four, but when you look at who is Jesus, how can you really?
Speaker 1:I know we've got the scriptures to give us an indicator, but when you look at it, he's the light of the world. He's the great I am. He's God, he's the. He's the great I am, he's, he's God, he is, he is. I'm actually lost for words for the first time, trying to work out, trying to put into the human language.
Speaker 2:When it so Jesus in Matthew 16, he's he's started his ministry, he's got the, he's got the fishermen together.
Speaker 1:He 16 he's started his ministry.
Speaker 2:He's got the. He's got the fishermen together, he's got the guys together. Yeah, he's got his apostles together. And it says. It says uh. In matthew 16, verse 30 it starts. It's when jesus came into the region of caesarea, philippi. He asked his disciples, saying who do men say that I am the son of man? Who am I? So? They said some say john the baptist, some say elijah, others say jeremiah or one of the prophets. And he said to them but who do you say I am?
Speaker 1:and simon peter answered him and said you are the christ, the son of the living god it's wrapped up, we must just press stop because it's like so the scripture tells us who he is. So when the scripture tells us who he is and we start talking about who he is without any press or without any hardship, with the absolute ease of everything, the scriptures suddenly open up who christ is. He is from gen to Revelation. He is the son of God, he is the air that we breathe, he is the oxygen, he is the living word, he is, he is the creator of heaven and earth.
Speaker 2:So when people say well, how can this carpenter certainly be doing this? Well, the answer is he's always been God. He's always been God, he's always been God, he?
Speaker 1:the answer is he's always been God, he's always been God, he's always been God. The reason that he has come to this world is to show us, through physical contact, that he is the living God. You know, the spiritual was always here before the physical. So God was always here, god was always before. Because the scripture tells us that very clear, and this is what I'm going to read from. I didn't continue this scripture, I'm going to read this in just its first to verse five of John, chapter one. We had.
Speaker 1:The first part says in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Then it goes on to say in verse three of John, chapter one through him, all things were made. Without him, nothing that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of mankind. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it. He is the creator, he is the God of Israel. He is the one they nailed to the cross. He is the king of the Jews. He is the God of Israel. He is the one they nailed to the cross. He is the King of the Jews. He is the King.
Speaker 2:So here's the deal then. So if we believe that, and we do, how do we respond to him?
Speaker 1:We obey him and we follow him. We walk with him and I say, lord, I've failed today, but you are the saviour of the world and you are my redeemer and I've been bought with the blood of Jesus.
Speaker 2:We talked about the blood last week, didn't we Ben? And we talked about a cross, but the story of Jesus Still continues, doesn't?
Speaker 1:it? It's got to, hasn't it? It has to continue.
Speaker 2:But you're right, we love him. We get to know him through his word Because his word, he is the word. So we need to get to know him through the word, don't we?
Speaker 1:He's the light that shines in the darkness. Isn't that interesting that he is the light that shines in the darkness. So he goes into the dark realms, you know? So he is the saviour of the world, he is the light of the world. He goes in and he is a rescuer. Oh yeah, he rescues, because the scripture says God rescues.
Speaker 2:And in doing rescuing us, Ben, he gives us mercy that we don't deserve.
Speaker 1:He's unconditional favour. We don't deserve it.
Speaker 2:We're wretches, aren't we? We're wretches, aren't we?
Speaker 1:we're wretches as that wretched man, yeah, that's right. As paul said, and as that other disciple said uh, on the shoreline or in the boat, I forget where he was he said away from me, lord, I'm a sinful man. Sinful man, yeah, I love that. I love that, but Jesus didn't walk, did he?
Speaker 2:No, he didn't listen to him.
Speaker 1:He said come on, I know you are, but I'm your redeemer, I'm your king, I'm your life.
Speaker 2:Because he was doing the will of the Father and he was always in contact with the Father. And for us to know the Father, then we've got to know him through Jesus. It's the only way. So he is everything, because he says in John 14, 6, in the arm of the way, the life and the truth, no one comes to the Father except through me.
Speaker 1:Except through me. Who's the me? I'm Jesus. Who's Jesus? I'm God. What? Who is Jesus? I'm God, what? Who is God?
Speaker 1:The scripture gives us a real to understand who Jesus is, to understand the Trinity, the deity.
Speaker 1:To get some form of understanding on this, god has to reveal it, because it's too big for the human mind and the concept and the processing of a human being. See knowledge puffs up. See, information is just information. But when we got information and god breathes on the information that we have, it becomes revelation. So when god reveals his word to us, it becomes like this holy dynamite that explodes within our hearts and then suddenly we have a mass download of the word of god that we've been reading for so long. And I'm not never saying that the word of god is just information, because it is revelation. But when we read it, like everything we read it is, it is informing us about something. So god's word is informing us about what is informing us about birth, death, resurrection, that the critic about the five-fold, about the life of god, everything is. It is giving me information, but that information needs the holy spirit to make it to be revelation yeah, yeah, that's the truth so so, but it a supernatural book.
Speaker 2:It's a supernatural. It's lovely that cartoon. He calls it the super book, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:The super book. It is a supernatural book. It's a supernatural book. It's the word of God. There's hope, there's life.
Speaker 2:But who did Jesus say he was? Oh no, he said. Didn't he say he was the good shepherd? He said he's the light of the world. He's the light of the world, he's the bread of life, he's the vine.
Speaker 1:Goodness gracious this is what Isaiah says, isaiah 53. You love it, don't you? I just can't get enough of this, jesus. It says he grew up before him like a tender shoot and like a root out of dry ground. This is what I love, right? He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering and familiar with pain. So when you look at Christ, so when you look at christ, when you look at christ, he wasn't like a youth leader. He wasn't dressed up and he wasn't theoretically birthed. It wasn't, he wasn't manufactured within the church we have. The world has crossed over for many years and we see this through the youth ministries, certain ministries, because they look the same. There is no different language between it. There is no biblical language, there is religious language, but there is no Jesus.
Speaker 2:So, rather than having the Spirit of Jesus shine out of you, which man? That's a massive impact, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Nothing attractive in your appearance. They want to manufacture. They want someone that's got a lovely smile. White teeth Dresses the way. Dresses the way the world dresses. But Jesus, it says there was nothing about him, that he had no beauty or majesty to attract Us to him. What we have in Hillsong, what we have in a lot of ministries there are attractive People in certain Areas, you know.
Speaker 2:You know what we're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the world uses sex to attract us into certain things. Everything is sexualized advertising, everything, the lust of the flesh. Do we know that there's lust in the flesh?
Speaker 2:Well, look at the guy from Hillsong, new York, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, who took a bit of a deep dive with you know, but they named him Pastor to the Stars, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, and he just looked like he was rolled off the Hollywood line, didn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But what happened to him? He just you know. See, if Jesus was around today, he'd be wearing scruffy old jeans, I guess.
Speaker 1:He's a carpenter, isn't he? Yeah, the scripture makes it very clear. There was nothing in his appearance that was attractive.
Speaker 2:He'd be wearing whatever the workers wear, wouldn't he? Because that's a pair of rough old boots. Yeah, there was nothing about his physicality.
Speaker 1:You're right, simon. Yeah, he would have blended in to the tradesman, he wouldn't have stood out as a model and do you know what, ben?
Speaker 2:I'm going to be controversial here. Come on, and that's a surprise, isn't it? It is a little bit. I don't want to see another picture of Jesus. No, because the Jesus that they paint ain't the one in reality, is he? No, he's this sissified Jesus that they want to throw at you, that they want to say this is he's all about love, he's all about you know, he's got. His hands are perfect, his hair is perfect, he looks. No, this is not the Jesus that actually walked the earth.
Speaker 1:This Jesus, this Jesus that we follow.
Speaker 2:He'd roll up probably in his flat back, you know and get out and measure up. Oh yeah, you know what you want a table. You want this, this, that and the other. Yeah, we'll get it sorted. What I love?
Speaker 1:about this this scripture is. It says the man christ jesus. What is a man? A man right, without all. We could get in trouble here gender issues, when you talk about the man christ jesus, the reason that is that is scripturally so strong is because when you understand what a man is and what a man represents, it is not what the church portrays no, I don't want to see another.
Speaker 2:I don't want to see another picture of jesus with a little lamb I don't want to see it, you know the man christ jesus.
Speaker 1:So very interesting it says that it mentions it once. The man christ jesus right, the scripture says he was tempted in every way, shape and form and whatever way you want to look at that church, you might want to take away the things that we're all thinking about. We won't talk about that. He was tempted in all ways because he was a man, but fully god yes, a man, fully man and fully god sinless sinless and without blemish well, you could imagine that you got a bunch of rough old boys as well, didn't you?
Speaker 2:you know these apostles, yeah yeah you know fishermen, they were fishermen. They're rough, so they, I'd imagine you know if it was fishermen. So I'd imagine you know if it was in this.
Speaker 1:Look at the Sons of Thunder, the nickname that they had, the Sons of Thunder. Why are they called the Sons of Thunder?
Speaker 2:because the air was blue yeah, because if it was in this day and age, they'd be dropping an F-bomb here and there, wouldn't they all day long?
Speaker 1:you know, hello my child. How are you today?
Speaker 2:The Lord is wonderful.
Speaker 1:Bless you, my son. I've just trapped my hand between two boats. Praise the Lord, hallelujah, god is with you. You can imagine what was going on.
Speaker 2:I've just stubbed my toe. Oh dear, oh dear, oh sorry Charlie.
Speaker 1:It's okay, James.
Speaker 2:I've just hit my hand with a hammer. Oh, that hurt a bit.
Speaker 1:Oh, golly gosh, we're so sorry.
Speaker 2:No, this is. We've got to be real, haven't we? So that's why the scripture says demand this is where the church falls down because it's not betraying Jesus, the ordinary man in the street Demand Christ Jesus. It's not betraying him, as he was, because the ordinary man in the street can't relate, can't relate To the religious one. To the religious one that you're trying to give him.
Speaker 1:Because when you look, it's like the saints, isn't it? It's like the ones, the apostles that we read about. The church and religion have put them in stained glass windows high up and they're all walking around and you look at them and think I can't get near them. But when you look at paul, when you look at the fishermen, when you look at all what they, what the church calls the saints, they were men, men that was anointed by christ what is revealed to us today is that the church in general ain't talking about their 30 years that Jesus spent as a carpenter, are they?
Speaker 1:no. And living in the house with his brothers no.
Speaker 2:And the neighbors talking about them no, they're not talking about that stuff, because to get to know him, we need to know about, we need to have some sort of idea, because then, when we know that, it makes the fact that he was fully God even even Fully God. Even greater than what we ever thought.
Speaker 1:When you think, look, just staying in John chapter one, it says in the beginning. So what does that actually mean? The beginning of time before the world, even in the beginning, was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god. He was with god in the beginning. Through him, all things were made. Without him. When it talks about him, it is it's talking about the human, it is talking about him, the man, christ Jesus. But he is the son of the everlasting father. He is the father because he says I and the father are one.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I am the father, or one, so there's many references where you can't separate them, but you can. Only for a breath, for a few moments. You can see them in their oh gosh, I can't even word it because it makes me just want to get under the table, because you can't actually word it. You know, because when you look at him in his full deity, fully God, the lamb, without blemish, john said behold the lamb of god. But john knew him. John knew, john knew him. But then he said behold the lamb of god and he said.
Speaker 2:Jesus said in john 16 32 I'm not alone, for my father is with me, so he's with the Father. Him and the Father are one. And he has to be fully sinless to go to the cross, because if he'd committed sin, he'd be going to the cross for himself. You see that? Yeah, because he had to be sinless to take our wicked sins on him and take the Father's wrath. If he'd been sinning, he'd be going to the cross for himself, wouldn't he? The?
Speaker 1:man. Christ Jesus lived for 33 years or thereabouts, whatever that was completely and absolutely temptated, lived every way. See everything, witnessed everything, had every way. See everything, witnessed everything, had every conversation under the sun. Everything was breaking out in his life, his family's life, his brothers. He had brothers. Jesus had brothers. Jesus had A earthly stepfather. You know his mum and his dad. The scripture says very clearly that Joseph was thinking about divorcing her quietly. Yes, yeah, so there's a, there's a family that he's in a family. That is that there is tensions that that joseph could have carried. For how long could he have carried? What really was? Who is this jesus? So so is that? Who is this j Jesus? Is he my son? Mary, where you been?
Speaker 2:He's got all that going on the story of Joseph isn't really told.
Speaker 1:It's not told the full story of Mary is not really told either.
Speaker 2:You imagine that 30 years they got to know him. They must have got to know him. I mean, if you you know she accepted that she was going to have this virgin birth and it was going to be Christ. But what does that mean? She'd had no idea what that meant.
Speaker 1:She was a young 15, 16-year-old girl, even younger than that.
Speaker 2:She had no idea what that meant for this child. Who imagine that put it into your care until the God of all gods, it's put into your care, the man. The Bible doesn't really tell us anything about that, but it reveals something. I think, and I'm just thinking about this, the very first miracle he performed that we know, he was in Weatherspoons it could have been.
Speaker 1:He turned that bad lager into Stella.
Speaker 2:Artoris, but what they came to Mary didn't they? They came to Mary and Mary said speak to Jesus Now.
Speaker 1:So she's got to know him. You've hit St Right, you've hit Saint right, you've hit Saint Evie there, right. So when you think about that, talk to Jesus. So there is extra biblical knowledge that has been kept from us that only Joseph, his stepdad, his mum, mary and Jesus, the connection that them three had as a family unit. So for Mary to go, just go and ask my son yes, she knew, she knew, she knew, even though he hadn't done a miracle, that we know of, that we know of, as in the writings, in the writings, because we understand what the scripture says. So for her to say have a word with him, she knew who he was.
Speaker 2:And she got to know who he was through that 30 years Because you know, as a young girl?
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a young girl. She nurtured him.
Speaker 2:All she sees is a little baby. You imagine that Is this. The Christ Is this.
Speaker 1:Christ, the saviour of the world, born in a stable. He's been rejected. There's no room at the inn. We've been rejected.
Speaker 2:So you don't know what you. What's he going to do? What's going to happen? Is he growing?
Speaker 1:up.
Speaker 2:So they've grown up, she's looked after him, nurtured him.
Speaker 1:They've all grown together.
Speaker 2:They've all grown together. Joseph has taught him the trade as a carpenter. They've all grown, but they know, they know, they know because she said on that wedding feast in Canaan speak to Jesus.
Speaker 1:Amazing when you think, even looking at Joseph, even looking at his stepdad, his earthly dad that took him under his roof, what sort of reward did Joseph get when you look at this stuff? Because the church always wants to spiritualise everything, doesn't it? Religion always wants to get a new, latest song out. There's so much in the Jesus story that makes me feel comfortable as a human being that this family unit went through everything, got a stepfather, he's in the house of brothers, he's a tradesman. There must have been a time when I'd felt a bit short. Have a word with Jesus. The roof's leaking. Lord, do something, can you? No, but he didn't do anything. He didn't do anything like that until he was called and that calling and his ministry started. But she noticed this is this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this she knew. Yeah, so Joseph, the story of Joseph as the stepfather is almost. It drops off the page. It drops off the page. Yeah, it's almost, it drops off the page. It drops off the page. Yeah, so, for 30-odd years and 33 years, even up to the crucifixion, where is Joseph amongst the? Because he so Joseph was a father, he was his father. So he would have put and he would have instilled and installed into Jesus Joseph's understanding of a father. But Joseph had in his hands the father of fathers.
Speaker 2:Imagine oi. Jesus, listen, get to bed.
Speaker 1:Get to bed now.
Speaker 2:Get off the iPhone.
Speaker 1:Get off it, leave. Come off that. Get off, leave it. I'll turn the internet off, but it's interesting.
Speaker 2:The story of Jesus. Yeah, it's just interesting that dropped into me that wedding feast in Canaan, the Churchill of you going that was his first miracle and it just goes over it.
Speaker 1:It just goes over it.
Speaker 2:But there's so much in that because Mary, his mother, she knew, yeah, she knew, and all of a sudden no one knew. No one knew Except.
Speaker 1:Mary, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, no one knew, it was a quiet thing. He didn't go Tommy Cooper, just like that.
Speaker 1:Just like that.
Speaker 2:He didn't do a magic trick or anything, he just did it quietly.
Speaker 1:He just did it quietly. So when you look at the story the Jesus story, as this is titled this podcast it doesn't go down the spiritual churchy road, because it's always spiritual and it's always the kingdom, because it's the king. It doesn't go down the religious route.
Speaker 1:We don't need to go down the religious route, because there is all power, all authority in his story and what fascinates me is Joseph. How did Joseph feel when suddenly he sees this young man suddenly coming into this, anointing and calling? He's been crucified. My son, the boy that I brought up, the one that we sat on the rock at lunchtime. We shared a sandwich together. It makes me want to cry when I really think of Joseph.
Speaker 1:Yeah, joseph, watching and seeing his stepson that he looked after, that he nurtured, that, he trained, that they sharpened tools together. They spent time together, they had a bit of banter together, they laughed, they joked and who'd done absolutely nothing wrong.
Speaker 2:Who'd?
Speaker 1:done nothing wrong his son, because he was his son because he was given he was given and he was placed in the care of of a mum and a dad, because the weight on their shoulders.
Speaker 2:The church wants to go from him being Jesus' little baby to Jesus 33, doesn't he?
Speaker 1:It skips out all of that other stuff. It skips all that out.
Speaker 2:Except for the bit about when he was in the temple. But he skips throughout all of that. He skips throughout those personal relationships.
Speaker 1:Between all that, between that family. That family and his brothers and his brothers and his work colleagues.
Speaker 2:He doesn't mention any of that the town, the village where they was. Because that's interesting, isn't it? Because when he went back, yeah, the carpenter's son. Yeah, exactly, a prophet is without honour in his own town, in his own town, so they've gone.
Speaker 1:They just looked at him.
Speaker 2:They just looked at him.
Speaker 1:As Isaiah says in Isaiah 53. He grew up like a tender shoot out of dry ground. He had no beauty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire. He was just a boy in their eyes. That's Jesus. That's the carpenter he built my extension. A prophet yeah, what? That's the truth. A prophet is without honor in his own town. That's what happened when he went back. And this is the god, and this is that created them. This is the god, that that created. Oh man, this is just too big. This is just enormous. This is just massive I can't believe it.
Speaker 2:And that happens, you know, in in, in the world, where people who had been certain way yeah suddenly change and follow people don't believe it.
Speaker 1:So you've got a tradesman, because they recognize him as the tradesman, as the son of of that unusual family. We're not quite sure where jesus came from, but we've heard rumors around the village and the town that Jesus might not be. What possibly Is Joseph? So there's all this conversation. He might not have even looked like Joseph. He might not have even looked like him. You know when you think, and all this sort of stuff going on. So you've got this. You can call it a displaced family to the onlookers in.
Speaker 2:But he's a guy that's grown up in that and before long people are going. Oh, that's Joseph's son.
Speaker 1:Jesus, that's Joseph's dad.
Speaker 2:And oh, he's a carpenter. Oh yeah, he come and he fixed my cabinet. He made a chair for us. Yeah well, he's a good guy.
Speaker 1:He's all right.
Speaker 2:He's not bad, you know. He don't hear a bad word said about Jesus. Do you know what I mean? That's what it would have been. And then for him to go back and start doing miracles no, they don't want that. They don't. We can't have that. It's too much for them. He's the carpenter.
Speaker 1:They've just blown their minds, haven't they? It's just done it. So this is interesting because real callings are on real people, real callings on real people, people that have been through.
Speaker 2:Not manufactured.
Speaker 1:Not manufactured by the church and because you've been brought up in a Christian household, you are a pastor because my dad's a pastor. You are a worship leader because my dad's a leader you are. I'll tell you what. We'll keep you in this little holy huddle and we'll put you in the pulpit. We'll put you in the church office. You can work for the church. You can do this when, actually, who are really who across the board of the UK? Who is really living a true calling? Many are called, few are chosen, not many anointed teachers, I'm afraid to say, across the platform in the UK at this moment.
Speaker 1:They, yeah, they all want the anointing, don't they, they all want it, but you can want it all you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's only one. There's only one Because where do the gifts come from? The gifts are given, given by who? By God, by the deity, by the power of the Holy Spirit. The gifts are given, but you can't go to a Bethel teaching group and then suddenly, at the end of 12 weeks, because you've paid five grand, become a miracle worker.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. That's a great point. You can't suddenly become an evangelist, you, that's a great point.
Speaker 1:You can't suddenly become an evangelist because you pay. You can't because a man has given you a certificate.
Speaker 2:And told you you're now anointed, but give me five, grand Five and you can be anything that's so great. That's exactly what the world says.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what the world says Come into my surgery and I'll make you Betty from Billy.
Speaker 2:Give us a few, you can be anything you want to be in this world and be anything you want to be in this world, and the church is doing exactly the same, and the deal is we get the gifts from the father through the son, don't we?
Speaker 1:so the gifts are given, salvation is given, everything is given. So when we talk about pastors and leaders and preachers and teachers of the word, you are given a gift. To deliver the gift. You can't be taught. There's no teaching. No, there is a certain area of study and learning, because christ was in the temple studying the scriptures. All of us, as believers, need to study the scriptures. But then there is another layer where god uses and god takes the person and here anoints them.
Speaker 1:I think the hardest thing for anyone to do is to live in an anointing when you can't operate in that anointing at the moment yeah, I mean that's a yeah God gives you a vision and a dream, and it's not for now, and you've got to get back on the and that now, and you've got to get back on the saw, and that's the problem.
Speaker 2:You've got to get back in the triangle, mate. That's a great. Never do away with the Old Testament, because the Isaiah, just for one thing he says in there he shapes us like an arrow and keeps us in the quiver until he's ready to use us Exactly.
Speaker 1:You're shaped, you're anointed, you are called, you are chosen, you are ready in the eyes of god and you are in the backpack. You're not ready to come out?
Speaker 2:ready to come out, and that's I'm in the moses basket but the church is getting me out and there's a problem with a lot of people that they don't want to wait, and I've seen it. I've seen it too often where people have been accelerated too quickly without having that firm foundation, without having the 30 years you know 30 years.
Speaker 1:It was so important for jesus, wasn't it the 30 years?
Speaker 2:on the tools. That was so important I love that. I love this podcast it's podcast. We've expanded stuff that they never thought we'd do. But it's made us realise. The story of Jesus and really if you listen out there and you haven't grasped more of Jesus today, I think I don't know. Maybe you weren't listening fully to what we were saying, because I've learnt a lot more about Jesus today Than the church has ever taught us. And we ain't even, we haven't even started.
Speaker 1:We haven't really started.
Speaker 2:We'll come back to this next week and, I don't know, we may even get to the cross, but at some point we will get to the cross.
Speaker 1:Don't you find this fascinating? One last little thing Christ was a carpenter. What did he work with?
Speaker 2:Timber.
Speaker 1:What did he go to? A cross that was made out of timber. There is so much in the story of Jesus. There is so much in the story of Jesus, fully God, fully man.
Speaker 2:But if you grasp what we've been saying today and listen to this podcast a couple of times, because if you grasp what we're saying today, you'll get nearer to Jesus and you'll have more of a relationship with him. And where will he lead you Only to one place, and that's the Father.
Speaker 1:And then, when you look at the father, who do you see Jesus?
Speaker 2:yeah, and we haven't even. We've got to do the father's story in a few weeks time. Yeah, and that is incredible, because that's a story that's not really told too much, is it?
Speaker 1:no, because you've got the story of two fathers, haven't you?
Speaker 2:the father gets a bad rap and god.
Speaker 1:Joseph, I thought I'd get some bad rap. There's so much in the father, the father's stepfather, joseph, and the father. So much in Jesus' story. It's been great, it's been really. You know and we pray wherever you are. Is that we just look at Jesus? As Hebrews, chapter 12, verse 2, says keep your eyes on Jesus, the author, the perfecter of your faith, wherever you are. Today, Simon's brought a great title to the table, fueled and stirred by the Holy Spirit, jesus Christ, the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. You can capture us on many multiple platforms. You can find us on Amazon Music, apple Play, alexa, iheart Radio. There's so many other platforms that are out there Buzzsprout, spotify. Listen to these podcasts back and just type in the search engine hashtag Christian Straight Talk and if you need Simon, we've got the email address. That's all up there for him on the website and all that sort of stuff. You can find us. But you don't really need to search for us. You need to find jesus above all that, it's jesus amen, god bless.
Speaker 1:Have a great day in the name of jesus. God bless, thank you.
