Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Reverend Ben Coopers podcast, offers an inviting space for listeners to explore Christianity and spiritual growth with wisdom, humor, and a deep commitment to biblical truth. Through Rev. Ben's engaging conversations with guests, the podcast not only explores the timeless wisdom of the Bible but also tackles the pressing issues of life, faith, and hope in a way that is accessible, thought-provoking, and enriching. Whether you’re seeking spiritual nourishment, answers to life’s big questions, or simply a place to reflect on your faith, the Rev Ben podcast is a valuable resource on your journey.
In each episode, Rev. Ben guides listeners through profound theological reflections, personal stories, and practical insights drawn from the Bible and the broader Christian tradition.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
The Nature of the Fall and the Cosmic Impact of Spiritual Forces (#806 - Elim)
What if the universe is only 6,000 years old? This bold statement is at the heart of our conversation with Roy, our insightful guest at Elim Church, as we tackle the fascinating "Nature of the Fall." Together, we revisit listener feedback on the Schofield Bible's dispensational commentaries and explore the harmony between science and scripture, particularly in the context of Genesis and the creation of celestial bodies. Roy offers a fresh perspective, suggesting that scientific understanding reinforces rather than contradicts biblical narratives, encouraging us to see how the sun and moon's creation aligns with both science and faith.
Our discussion ventures into the cosmic impact of sin and temptation, questioning how far Satan's influence might extend beyond Earth. From Saturn's rings to lunar volcanic activity, we consider whether these cosmic phenomena could reflect the spiritual disruption caused by human actions. The idea of a "fifth force" and divine perfection at creation challenges us to reconcile human and divine standards of goodness, prompting a deeper consideration of the spiritual and physical realms and the consequences of the fall of man on a universal scale.
In examining the spiritual dynamics between realms, we delve into the story of the Nephilim from Genesis 6, exploring how spiritual beings influence the physical world. The narrative of hybrid races and giants like Goliath offers intriguing insights into the manifestation of spiritual forces throughout history, including during the New Testament events like Satan entering Judas. As we wrap up this enlightening episode, we express gratitude to our listeners for their continued support and invite them to access the podcast across multiple platforms, ensuring easy access to further explore their spiritual journey with us.
Discover insights into the Nature of the Fall and explore the intriguing concept of a 6,000-year-old universe theory as we delve into Genesis and creation, uncovering how science and scripture harmonize. Join us as we examine the Schofield Bible commentary and debate dispensational theology, reflecting on the cosmic effects of sin and Satan's influence beyond Earth. Learn about the Nephilim in Genesis 6, the story of hybrid races and giants, and the role of spiritual forces in history. Our discussion touches on the divine perfection at creation, the sun and moon's creation, and how lunar volcanic activity and cosmic phenomena align with biblical narratives. This podcast invites you to deepen your understanding of the spiritual and physical realms, fostering a richer connection between faith and the universe.
christian, podcast, bible, genesis, creation, faith, science, scripture, nephilim, sin, satan, theology, apologetics, cosmos, schofield, dispensationalism, spiritual
https://www.pastorbencooper.co.uk/
Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us today, wherever you are across the earth. We thank you so much for sharing everything that we're doing here at Elim Church. We've got our friend Roy on the other side of the mics today and a great title that he's bringing to each and every one of us, wherever you are. Thank you so much for sharing everything that we do here. And today's title is Nature of the Fall.
Speaker 1:And we have roy for a few days, a little bit longer, before he disappears. When you disappear in, roy won't be till september, oh, september, oh. So it's a fair while yet. So still a fair while. We'll go but he's with us today and that's the most important thing as we capture some of the stuff that he's been studying and reading and god has been placing in his heart as we just gather around the word of God. So we're going to hand over to Roy and, as we just listen and as we be, still, grab yourself a coffee, relax, whether you're at home, whether you're at work, whether you're in the gym listening to all this sort of stuff that we are pushing out here. We, we really believe that we are living in very powerful times and God is moving right. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's all right with you, ben, can I just um revisit a couple of things? I said um in our last meeting because, um, I received a few emails from your listeners and and they weren't critical, they just wanted clarification of a couple of things.
Speaker 2:And so, um with, uh, the nature of of this informal chat that we're having, um, usually I'm I'm teaching, preaching, so you're in full flow so it can, being informal, come out a bit clumsy, and I think I've been a little bit clumsy in terms of some of the things I've said without clarification. So there's just a couple of things, ben, if I just want to revisit. Yeah, backtrack, yeah, I mean, like one of the things. A couple of your listeners sent an email so they got the impression that I didn't have any confidence in the Schofield Bible, the translation, and I want to put it in context. I mean, I think the Schofield Bible that was printed in 1909 was very, very good, ben, because it was the authorized version. It was from the Tectus Receptus, but the point I was making is that it was the first study Bible Receptus. But the point I was making is that it was the first study Bible.
Speaker 2:And what Schofield did? He put commentaries, dispensational commentaries, alongside the verses in the Bible. And so by 1914, 1915, as the break of the First World War, books were flying off the shelf, the Bibles were flying off the shelf. But what happened? People were actually reading the Bible and thinking that, though God's words are infallible, they looked to the side notes of dispensational teaching and thought they were infallible too. And so what happened? You've got a lot of pastors basically accepting as the gospel an old creation.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so there is a lot, a lot of Christians around today that would say that from Genesis 1, verses 1 and 2, addresses a very old creation, and then creation began in literal six days, right? Well, the point I'm making is that's not the case. The creation that we know of the universe is young, and it's 6,000 years old. And so then it ties in with my other point is that I mentioned, when I said that the Spirit of God hovered over the world. As I said, it was some kind of plasma soup. Well, that got a bit of interest by some of your listeners. What's this plasma soup? Well, that got a bit of interest by some of your listeners. What's this plasma soup, ben? Well, it clearly and this is going to be sound exegesis, because I'm going to use a couple of verses to do with this that when you read the text in verse two, it says the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the Walders, and so we read the word Walders, and so we would literally say well, there we have it, Roy, there is Walder, and so that might be the remains of the Lucifer flood. That was the period where God judged Lucifer before he created the earth as we know it today, and so a lot of people view that that proves that there was millions and millions of years before God went to work, 6,000 years ago, on the creation we have today. Well, that is weak theology, very weak. Okay, it's very weak theology Because, if we go to, I want to take your listeners to verse 16.
Speaker 2:And here in verse 16, it says that God made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night, and he made the stars also. Now, okay, let's just clarify this. Science is very good with the Bible. I don't sort of interpret the Bible in light of science. What I do? I interpret science in the light of the Bible. Amen, right, that's what I do.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:So let's just throw science on this, verse 16, keeping sound exegesis of the text. Okay, we know when we read that when God created two great lights, he was creating the sun and the moon. Now we get that. But what science says says hold on a moment. They're not literally two lights. There's only one light. There's only one Because the moon doesn't generate a light. In fact, it reflects the light of the sun. Because the moon doesn't generate a light. In fact it reflects the light of the sun.
Speaker 2:so the moon basically, is a dead planet. Yeah, now, science explains that and we know from science that it controls the tides. Okay, and we know how it works, right. But it doesn't undermine scripture, because scripture is clear that there are two great light is a greater light and a lesser light. Yes, and so we know that in verse 16, when, when moses penned this under the inspiration of the holy spirit, he, he was talking about the sun and the moon. Now we're safe to do that. Yeah, a hundred percent okay.
Speaker 2:So let's just take the same application of that verse 16 and now apply it where we see that the spirit of god was hovering over the waters. And when you get to this word water, people think it's h2o. Well, h2o is made up of three atoms two hydrogen and one oxygen. Yeah well, atoms weren't even created there at this point, right so, when I said it was, um, some kind of plasma soup, all right, science has proved just recently that what Moses was looking at, or the state of what the spirit of the law was hovering over, was what they call, okay, quirk-gluon plasma. Okay, yeah, right now, I know it's a bit of a mouthful, but listeners, just… Just listen, just buy with me on this one, just listen.
Speaker 2:Okay, quirk glue and plasma is something that they've identified by smashing atoms together just short of the speed of light. There are numerous let me get this right sort of colliding instruments around the world. You've got the famous one at Geneva, okay, the CERN Collider. That's massive, but the one that interests me is one in Brookhaven in America where it's 2.4 miles long. And what they did? They smashed these atoms together. Now, what they found and I mean this is top draw science, because billions are being paid, you know to do these experiments Uncannable money.
Speaker 2:All right, Now the guys that see this. Now we're talking secular science, so we're not talking Christian science. We're talking secular. We're talking secular science.
Speaker 2:Now, when they observed this, they saw, when they smashed these atoms and it was incredible heat that it produced this quirk gluon plasma. Now let me use an illustration. They said that it actually looked like this plasma was not really technically. Technically it was a plasma, but it didn't look like a plasma. In fact, it looked like a liquid. Where they've actually noted this, it has the properties of what it looked like was water. Wow, all right, this quirk-gluon plasma that was seen. It looked like it was water. Now I want to use an illustration in the terms of Moses getting this revelation and seeing the Spirit of God hover over the waters In front of us.
Speaker 2:We've got this jar of water. Okay. Now if we went and get two other jars, absolutely the same, and if I filled one jar up with white spirit and I filled up another one with vodka, to look at by our eyesight, you would see the author in my water, the properties. You look at using our eyesight, you would look at it Vodka is it vodka? Is it white spirit? Now, when we use another sense, you go and sniff the white spirit, you know that is definitely not water. You might not know what white spirit is, but you know it's not water. And it's the same with the vodka. If you taste the vodka maybe you've never tasted vodka before you can say now, that is not water. So what I'm saying is that it has the properties of looking like water, but it's not water. So what's happening here is that, before God actually created and brought the atoms together, because what a quirk is? A quirk makes up a proton and neutron, which actually makes up an atom. So we're going really, really… we're really going into it.
Speaker 1:Going quite deep into this.
Speaker 2:And also it talks about void and darkness. Well, of course you have void and darkness, because there was no preeminent light. When preeminent light starts it, it was separated from the darkness and we talked about it making gravity, causing a sphere to be formed, a world to rotate. So just going back to this, uh, this plasma. All right, just to look at that plasma. They've even just recently finding what they call exotic quirks. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Different flavours, different kinds. They're looking at about another 21. So in the last few years they're starting to find out more and more of what things looked like before they were created as an atom. So when we look at verse 2, here we're looking at a picture of something before Heavenly Father brought together and formed atoms as we know it Before.
Speaker 1:So really it's quite simple when you take it biblically.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But then suddenly you can get it really complicated. But you've explained it and it took a lot for me to listen to that. But I can understand. But through the power of the Holy Spirit as well. The Holy Spirit obviously helps us to get understanding. So science, to me, just confirms what you're reading.
Speaker 2:What it does? It amplifies God's word for us. Yeah, Because you know for years, as a child and growing up, you know you look at that and you think it's natural water. Yeah, and initially you won't have any problem. But if you take verse 16, all right, we know it's the moon, we know it's the sun. But science says hold on a moment, there's not two little different lights, it's one light, it's one. Okay, it's not undermining scripture, it's explaining it.
Speaker 1:It's explaining it.
Speaker 2:So when you come to this world, the face of the waters okay, to actually see it okay or view it in a vision could easily have the properties of water, Just as I gave the example of vodka and white spirit in the same glass, it looks. It looks identical. It's only when you use your other senses that you know that it's very much not water.
Speaker 1:And you go further. Yeah, you dig deeper.
Speaker 2:So that's really what I wanted to tie up for your listeners, that I'm very comfortable. When the spirit of God hovered over the waters, it wasn't H2O, you know that sits well with me. So, moving on then the nature of the fall. This is quite important for us because you obviously know, ben, that the moment that Adam and Eve trespassed in the garden from the tree of knowledge, uh, that they saw themselves naked they. So they covered themselves, um, but their covering wasn't enough.
Speaker 2:So heavenly father makes the first blood sacrifice and he covers them, and so we start to see, immediately after the fall, the importance of blood sacrifice, and so there's a load of spiritual laws that start to really take place. Now, what I just want to you know, just briefly sort of talk about is this dynamic of some of your listeners will remember from our last chat that before the fall, the spiritual realm and the physical realm was one of the same. Yeah, and so the light in that was far superior than the natural light, and not only many, many theologians of the view that there's a water canopy that was around the earth because there was no natural rain until the flood and they believe that that water canopy at the flood collapsed.
Speaker 2:That was part of what we call the second great bombardment of our planet. Scientist says there were two major bombardments in the history of our planet over millions and millions of years. Well, I will say that there were two major bombardments over 6,000 years 6,000. Yeah, the first being the fall, the second being the flood, the flood.
Speaker 2:Right. So the first, the fall. What actually took place when the spiritual realm was suddenly torn away from the physical realm? It affected creation. Now I'm not going to patronise your listeners and explain the changes of the physical realm, because we know that, you know, animals started to prey on other animals, they started to become weeds, women started to have problems with childbirth, with pains. We see all that because of the fall.
Speaker 1:So the fall has affected creation. So when you spoke about two different major areas that have come to the world, the worst one that we could ever have and seen has to be the first one, because the first one affected everything, correct?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and there is evidence, scientific evidence, of what they call the early great bombardment. There is the early. Now they're talking of multi-millions of years, possibly billions of years. That's their timeframe. So let's forget about the timeframe and bring it back to the fact there was a major bombardment. Now let's just cast an eye off planet Earth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:The spiritual realm has been torn away. Now for today, if you jumped on a rocket and went all the way to Mars, do you honestly believe if you get to Mars you won't experience temptation? You know, what I'm trying to say is that Satan's kingdom. Though we talk about the world, we think, oh, it's just on planet Earth.
Speaker 2:So if we all move to Mars, we'll be, okay, we won't be tempted, there'll be no sin apart from our own immortal failings, and so to live on mars would be like living in the millennium. Okay, where we're more, where many still are will be mortal, but there isn't the curse, we're free, all right. Well, or even we live on the moon now, of course, I see you're smiling. Yeah, you get where I'm going with this. Really, when the spiritual realm was torn from the physical realm, it went right through the cosmos.
Speaker 2:So when you start exploring our solar system let's just talk our solar system, let alone distant galaxies. Everyone would say that a creationist would say look at the beauty of Saturn, wonderful, beautiful planet and its rings. Well, yes, I accept it's a beautiful planet, it looks great, but you see those rings? When you look at them, it's devastation, it's destruction, it speaks of death, it speaks of destruction. Now, god did not put all those little rocks around Saturn in those early days, you know, before the fall. That is a result of the fall and of the spiritual realm being torn away from the physical realm. So even now, scientists have identified that the rings are getting smaller and smaller because it's been eaten up by Saturn, and smaller because it's been eaten up by Saturn. But if it was billions and billions of years old, then there should be no rings today because of the rate that they are actually being removed.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:So the rings are getting smaller and smaller because those rocks, okay, are actually being sucked into the gravitation and into the planet of Saturn. So that is one aspect. Now, if we just take our moon right, this is the other one, this kind of plasma blast that went right through the cosmos the very moment that the preeminent light disappeared. Right, it's still around today. That's the fifth force we talked about.
Speaker 1:The fifth force? Yeah, it exists. It's there, hopefully, god willing.
Speaker 2:Fifth force. We talked about the fifth force. Yeah, it exists, it's there. Hopefully, god willing that they will identify it. You know they're getting closer and closer and I pray that they will, because that will really open a new chapter. It will really just, it will reinforce quite a few things, but of course they will interpret very different from when you and I've been.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course they will interpret very different from when you and I have been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, or in the light of Scripture, okay, so when you just take, you know the moon. Now we all know that the moon always faces us and it rotates a month and it controls the tides. So there's a lot that your listeners will know about the moon. But to view the moon this is a fact okay is that there is a high percentage of the rheoglyph that's like the mantle that covers, like on Earth. There is a rheoglyph that's like the topsoil, until you get down to the bedrock, so it's the cloak around the planet. Well, the rheoglyph on the face of the moon this side, a lot of it is gone, gone, it's completely gone. This side, a lot of it has gone, gone, it's completely gone. And also, they see, on this side there was volcanic eruptions and there's evidence where volcanoes and lava flows on the moon. Now, of course, that was not in creation. No.
Speaker 2:Because when God finished it on day six. He said it was very good, all right, there wasn't still some volcano bubbling away, there wasn't something that still needed tidying up.
Speaker 1:Finished completed good.
Speaker 2:Totally Just as Jesus on the cross. It is finished, bang, done, deal. Yeah. So when God says it is good, it's very good, you've got to say everything as its place.
Speaker 1:And I think what's important there, roy, when God says good and very good, that is different to the human interpretation, that whatever we think is is great and beautiful and wonderful, yeah, it's far beyond what we could ever imagine. So if god says it's very good and good, yeah, we can never fathom the beauty of it and that reminds me of, of the words of jesus.
Speaker 2:You see, jesus brings it home, doesn't he? Yeah, when he said no man is good except god. Exactly, you know, and that's a tall order which we, we get it we understand we understand, yeah, the child's good, we will celebrate. You know, of course we do, uh, that kind of thing and we, we know that. But if god says, my here is my son, my good and faithful servant, you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:If god says, it's good, it's good, it's good and faithful servant. You know that kind of thing. If God says it's good, it's good, it's good, and that is beyond human interpretation.
Speaker 2:Well, it is, and it's hard, you know, to better it.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about what you're talking about the universe. There's bits and there's pieces and there's disruption. Yeah. That is outside of creation. When I say outside of creation, god did not create that. He spoke. And when he created, it was beyond perfect. Perfect, but good. So what was it that caused the what you're saying?
Speaker 2:okay well, everything, right through the whole cosmos, was perfect on day seven, let's put it that way On day seven, when God rested, you know Shabbat, you know the Sabbath, when it was all good, everything was perfect, and so even all the galaxies were complete, you know, and there was no black holes. There are things in the universe that we're observing that just speaks of death, decay, which is the hall years I've been in listening to the preaching and the teaching of the fall in the garden and that just made sin come to the human being.
Speaker 1:Something greater happened.
Speaker 1:I know we got redemption, but when you step outside of that garden and think, oh Adam, I know you've really done us a no, you know that's why we've got this suffering in the world, all this sort of stuff, side of that garden, and think, oh adam, you've written, if you've really done us, to know, you know that's why we've got this suffering in the world, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:But actually, when you look further than the human eye, the devastation and the in the spiritual realm yeah, was ripped and torn correct. This is really important, I believe, for such a time as this, for me and anyone else that's listening I know there's thousands of you listening and for the stuff that Roy is sharing, because I think for a long time we've had blinkers on our eyes just looking at the devastation to humanity. When actually you look up into the heavens and when he said it is good, very good, and then suddenly for man and woman to take of that tree, the eruption, the devastation, I actually can't get to a place where I would ever understand the destruction. And Roy is talking about the black holes, the darkness all represents what happened in that garden. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's so much more isn't there. But the church just looks at that, what's in front of us. Oh, they took of the tree that sin, but it's more, but it's not more because it all goes together. But in the heavens above that, we can't see, and we'll never see, to the full end of this age, what the eruptions and the devastation that it caused.
Speaker 2:spiritual devastation, yes yeah, and terrible death, and of course, that could lead on to the things, how things got so bad and that's why you had to have the flood, which was the second bombardment. But what is important I want to remind your listeners is that right now, wherever they are listening, they're very conscious of the physical realm that they're in, which is the outer court, but the inner court is the spiritual realm that exists right in their lounge, where they are now, or their bedroom, or wherever they're listening right now, and so there is a spiritual realm that is here and going. Going back to what I said about the time of job, when, when heavenly father talked, uh, and god talked with, with, um, satan, um, I think I slipped up and called satan job at the time, but anyway, um, we see that sanal's walking to and throw the earth. Yeah, yeah, he was, but no one would have saw him. No one saw Lucifer walking down the road because he was in the spiritual realm, that's exactly correct.
Speaker 2:There's this divine council where I believe Jesus in pre-incarnate form sat on the divine council and had that conversation with Lucifer to say have you seen my servant Job? And that was in the spiritual realm, the inner cult.
Speaker 1:That the human being will never see. That realm that exists. That is more real than Roy's across this table. It's more than we can put into the physical conversation that we're looking at these mics. We're looking at everything. Everything that is of material is before us, but there is, there is a realm out there that is so strong and so powerful beyond human eyesight. So when, when god said that, uh, what are you doing? And he's roaming backwards and forth, yeah, so there is an, a world that we'll never see with our natural eyes.
Speaker 2:Correct. What will be taking place in the years to come is that there will be breaches of the spiritual realm into the physical realm and when your listeners start studying and looking in Revelations, they will see there's a moment in time where the bottomless pit is open and there's a manifestation in the physical realm and people will actually have a plague. A plague will break out right and and when you look at the nature of that plague and how it is implemented, you will see there are celestial beings that will break from the spiritual realm into the physical realm. I know that's quite strong for some of your listeners to take on.
Speaker 1:It's very strong, but it's real. If the church keeps blanking this and keeps waving the flag all day long, everything is great and wonderful. You can't be reading from the Bible that we're reading from, because in the end days it tells us very clearly, and I do believe, that there is a breach. And I wonder if we're at that touching point. Have we touched it? Are we seeing things with the weather, with nature, with certain things that happen, certain leaders around the world, the way they influence certain areas of evil, depravity beyond human understanding? Has there been a breach now? Are we crossing to it? Is it six months away? Have we been in it a few months? You can't deny that there is something in the heavenlies. I will use the atmosphere that something's not right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we have seen. There is evidence throughout the Old Testament and the New where there have been breaches, and not only breaches but permission, where Heavenly Father and His sovereignty has sent, you know, angels like Gabriel who broke into the physical realm and manifested and even way back in the Old Testament.
Speaker 2:you know the destroying angels and even one of the plagues of Egypt and I'll put it in my book because David sings about it and you get a glimpse of really what took place. And it was during the plague where you know when it came down with hell, with fire and ice, like you know, mixed, that was a supernatural plague that came.
Speaker 2:It wasn't just a bad day of you know just a bad day of rain, because fire came down with ice, but also they weren't allowed out because David sings about the angels fighting in the fields, the angels destroyers. So during that plague there was I use the word breach but where the spiritual realm broke into the physical realm and manifested, we have it with Balaam's donkey. You know that's another one the donkey sees it, he sees into the spiritual realm. And there are other numerous examples we could use for our scripture, where the spiritual realm breaks into the sodom and gomorrah them.
Speaker 1:two heavenly hosts came down, so even lot had that encounter, didn't they, with two heavenly hosts? Yeah, the destroyers that came the destroyers that came down.
Speaker 1:So there is again evidence from heaven coming in and being very physically seen by Lot and everyone around them, because we understand what the audience in Solomon and Gora were shouting out to them Bring them out, we want them, bring them out. Yes, so the eyeballs of them, human beings, clocked the spiritual realm. Yeah, so there is evidence of breaching, and we use the word breaching because it's the easiest way for us to understand, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, yeah, it's a crossing, but isn't it interesting that we can't go that way? I can tell you're going to tell me something in a minute.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's rare, it's rare, it's rare, and I won't say it never happens, because you've got to look at Paul.
Speaker 1:There's a possibility. There's a possibility. Paul didn't know I was called to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he didn't know if he was out or in the body he wasn't too sure.
Speaker 1:Isn't that good the way he presents that? I'm not sure if I was in or out. Yeah, so there's a clear understanding, isn't there? There was something unusual, not sure. But when we look at the other way around, when the heavenly host come in, we have to say that that is a breach.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I mean. Satan has to get permission, so he's looking for legal right to come in. And that was the same with the Nephilim, where we read in Genesis 6, where he really didn't see it coming, dear old Lucifer. What happened? He thought he had domain and within a twinkling of an eye, the spiritual realm was torn from the physical, which stopped him physically manifesting anymore in the physical realm.
Speaker 2:So, as you follow the story, we see that he wants to control the physical realm in person, in person, in person, and he can only control it from the inner court, the spiritual realm. So what we see? We see that certain angels break into the physical realm. They came down and they married women and they formed a high-bred race.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Now that's a big subject and I give two or three chapters to that in my new book about that. And then, of course, what happens quick, this fast running forward, god pours out his judgment at the time of Noah. So the flood. So that was your second big bombardment. That was, you know, top, draw stuff that down the road. We then see that there are more giants that come along.
Speaker 2:Now I have to say to your listeners the giants that we see, like Goliath he was the last line they were not nephanim, they were not hybrids, they were giants. And so it was a DNA mutation that had taken place, and we can see where it came through. If you do a good Bible study in Genesis, you can see that the legal right came through Ham. And then, if you follow his line, you see that a fellow comes along called Canaan, his descendant, and it was out of Canaan that you eventually get the giants. And so there's a good possibility that Ham's wife carried DNA mutation of the hybrid. So it could be possibly that her great-great-grandmother or something had dealings with the Nephilim. Now, I know that's speculation, but there had to be a link from Ham down, because if you follow the line… you have to follow the line, don't you?
Speaker 1:You see?
Speaker 2:that there were not just one race of giants but several and that's another whole subject. But just for your listeners, they were far less superior than the Nephilim. The Nephilim were two or three times bigger than the likes of Goliath, and also they were not just human, they were celestial as well. That's why they had to be completely destroyed, and so their bodies are completely destroyed. So I don't want to get too much into that.
Speaker 1:But you find they're all linked together. Roy, can I just drop something in a moment? Sure, right now I'll just accelerate to the New Testament a moment. Now.
Speaker 1:Roy has made a very interesting point that we're all very aware of that Lucifer is invisible. Yeah, that's it, yeah. But when we come to the New Testament, when Christ is in the place of the Passover with the disciples and he's breaking bread with the disciples and Judas is at the table, it fascinates me all them characters that were around the communion table and it says Jesus said to him what are you going to do? Go and do very quickly. But at that point, when they were breaking bread and dipping the bread into the cup to get the sop, it says doesn't it that Satan entered into Judas?
Speaker 1:So there's another clear indicator, time and time again, that Satan has to have a vehicle for him to get work done. So, coming back to the Old Testament, it's the same with Nephilim, isn't it? They have to have a vehicle for them to get their work done. I understand the spiritual power on the outside, that is this force that presses us, but Satan is invisible. And so many people that Satan has two little horns and a red fork, don't they? Yeah, so he is powerless to a degree. It's so difficult, isn't it? Because you've got to carefully word things without people going. Well, the pastor's giving Satan power. No, we're trying to discuss this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So at that point of communion, satan entered into Judas Iscariot. So the spiritual realm has to have a vehicle to work in, doesn't it? To get its work done.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to sound controversial but it might take me another whole session to explain. But Satan personally didn't literally enter into Judas Iscariot. A spirit entered into Judas Iscariot and we know what that spirit was. It was the son of perdition. It's a spirit, and that same spirit will manifest again and enter the Antichrist.
Speaker 1:And. Paul talks about that.
Speaker 2:So, though, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that, yes, satan entered Judas, that's correct, but it wasn't that Satan as a celestial cherub came manifest. The spirit of yes, there is a spirit that Satan uses for his plans. And even with the Antichrist, he won't just be just a bad guy, no it will be driven with the force that we read about. Correct and I think we might be getting offline here. Aren't we Going away from it? But can I just go back to the moon? I just finished my pod to the moon. Go back.
Speaker 2:Can we go back to the moon? There's a song coming there, isn't there. Everyone's left to the moon, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Some song used to go, but there's so much to talk about, when you start talking about the spiritual realm and creation and the fall, and then and then you start thinking of these scriptures and everything just comes in line, doesn't it make things? It opens up things and you, the scripture, and you can see. You can see so much more when you, when you get really grounded in genesis, when you really get, when you really get that solid, it opens up so much more and it gives you more.
Speaker 2:I believe god gives us more insight yeah, I think one of the main problems with people today we get so caught up with our daily living and daily life, yeah, that we forget completely about the reality of the spiritual of the spiritual and so when you use terms like you know, spiritual warfare or intercessory prayer, it's foreign language to many christians. You know, and I'm generalizing, no, you're correct and even ourselves.
Speaker 2:You know when something happens. You know I'm not saying we're meant to see a some evil spirit behind every single object, but I'm thinking that we deal with life with our own ingenuity our experience logic and we. It takes a while before the you know the penny drops and think, okay, there there is something.
Speaker 1:There's a spiritual force that's driving it.
Speaker 2:Correct and it's the same. When I led churches Nine times out of ten when there was a key issue in the church, I never took it personally because I saw that it was a spirit driving behind it. If you didn't see that, you would most probably go. You know gaga, you know thinking it's all about you when it's not actually, is it so it's.
Speaker 1:So, coming back to that poor old guy in um, that poor old guy judas, he was a vehicle that was, that was used by a spirit, a false yeah, he, there was a spirit so that drives, so that so talking about stuff in church and life. It's driving, it uses the vehicle of humanity, it uses people. So we cannot say that this spiritual realm does not exist because we'd wipe everything out, because it was before we was.
Speaker 2:So the spiritual realm that we're talking about is far more important to talk about than just what we see in the natural running running of church yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I'm a great believer in in a literal millennial reign, that when jesus comes back, we will reign with him for literally a thousand years. Yes, and why I see that is because, part of that, the sun becomes seven times brighter and, and even if you do study of Isaiah, there is 50 different characteristic changes to our planet. So, for example, the Dead Sea, okay, but no longer is dead. There'll be living waters fly up Jerusalem, goes down into the Mediterranean, down into the Dead Sea. That's literal imagery, it's not prophetic symbolism. And so you know you and I, ben, could go fishing in the Dead Sea symbolism. And so you know.
Speaker 2:You know you and I, ben could go fishing in the dead sea one day, you know okay I know that sounds crazy, but there is going to be physical changes to our planet, well as the moon as well uh sorry, the sun as well, because it's going to be seven times brighter. The moon is going to be looking as the sun wow so um, but yeah, there's the moon.
Speaker 2:So all I was going to say about the moon back there, ben, was that if you go the other side of the moon, the rear glyph is all intact. It's all there, it's only this side. So the blast resonated out from the planet Earth went outwards. But when you look at the second bombardment, that's the flood, we can see there's a massive they think it could have been an asteroid hit the back side of the moon. It's very low down, massive, uh took a blast and from the back, yeah, it's, it's, it's on, like the southern point, very low, massive, big asteroid hit the back of the moon. Um, so there's a bombardment not only hit the backside of the moon but also the face of the moon, and I've identified seven asteroids that hit the Earth during the time of the flood. Okay, during the time of the flood. Now I know we're off topic again because we're talking the flood.
Speaker 1:It's all good. It's all good, it's all good.
Speaker 2:One interesting thing that's just come to mind, that if you go somewhere in australia I don't know where the place is there is a 60 ton meteorite in the middle of a desert. Okay, it's a meteorite, you can visit it. So this is not hocus pocus stuff, this is real. You, you can get. I think it's over 60 ton. They know it's a meteorite that that hit desert, but there's no impact crater.
Speaker 2:Well, the reason there's no impact crater is because, obviously, the time that it hit is that there was a big flood going on yeah, so it splashed, it sunk quite quickly, it gently, so it just yeah. Well, there was no impact crater, there's no impact, but there are other impact craters that, in what happened, would have accelerated the shift of the continents Of course.
Speaker 2:And so water not only was coming down, with the collapse of the canopy caused by the asteroids and the meteorites shower that was coming, you've also got the Earth giving up water, volcanic eruptions coming up from the Earth, and the process was to completely destroy the Nephilim. It took 150 days, all right, to actually take the fallen angels and there's good resources on this to actually put them into the bottomless pit and they're going to be released in Revelations and they're given the same amount of time 150 days 150 days so there's a lot of stuff that I could easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is not out there stuff, it's all in god's word.
Speaker 1:You just gotta see it and that's the thing you know.
Speaker 2:It's truth, and when you dig it, you find it yeah, so I I think that's about it on the nature of the fall, it's it, it happened it happened, yeah, but are you sure?
Speaker 1:are you sure? You know it's like so many, so much stuff in the uk church at the moment is just its focus is just taken away from god's word. You know, and I just pray for what we're listening to today and and for the thousands that join us across the earth that listen to this. It's so. Creation is so interesting in the spiritual realm.
Speaker 2:I have to say that you know, ben, that for many years I used to try to imagine what heaven was like. Yeah. And never really did it justice. I don't think any of us could, but one thing that helped me was to actually visualize spending a thousand years with the Lord on earth being immortal. Yeah, For a thousand years with the Lord on earth being immortal for a thousand years, because that's it immortal On earth and it's just like it was before.
Speaker 2:Adam, you know, lost the plot. He can't. We're going back to what we call the innocent period. All right, there'll be many thousands, millions, that will still be here, that will be mortal, but we're going to come back and reign with him. But if any of your listeners decide to do a study on a literal millennium, they will have an incredible insight into what it's going to be like, you know, just walking with the Lord, having fellowship with the Lord.
Speaker 1:I just yeah, my mind, I just my thinking.
Speaker 2:That's even before we start talking about heaven, you know Before we start talking about heaven.
Speaker 1:So what would heaven be like? What is that like if the earth was created like this?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, the new jerusalem comes down at the end of that and and that's just the start of eternity in it, it's, it's then we get into. I, I don't think for one minute that we're going to be in heaven singing kumbaya for billions and billions but the church has told me that, so I'll believe it Now.
Speaker 1:You've been a bad boy, ben. I've been a bad boy, haven't I? Yeah, father, forgive me, for I've sinned again and again. God is good, you know. It is so good and we have had such a great conversation. Roy has brought so much stuff that has got so much truth in it and it's coming from God, and we thank God for Roy and his family. And we're going to have a short break. We're going to get back in a few moments, so we're just going to press pause a moment, but if you need and you want to speak to Roy, roy how can we get hold of you?
Speaker 2:Okay, some of your listeners have picked up my email address, which is fine, and I will try to reply. It's roy underscore warren at hotmailcom. That's the best way to get me. And I will do my best to reply within a few days. Simple, yep.
Speaker 1:All done. Okay, there we go. Thank you so much for listening and for Roy for bringing us to the table Really interesting stuff that we're having going on here. We are living in great times. Let's keep in the word of God. God bless, we'll catch you later. Thank you so much. You can find all this stuff on Buzzsprout, spotify, iheartradio, amazon Music and so many other platforms. We will catch you soon. Take care and God bless.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to Ealing Church's One News Latest podcast. You can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, Apple Music, iHeartRadio, Google Play, Alexa, Mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube you.
