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Standing Firm in Faith: Overcoming Persecution in India (#802 - Elim) PC

• Reverend Ben Cooper

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"Join Reverend Ben Cooper in this powerful episode featuring Sandra Robson as she explores the harsh realities of Christian persecution in India. Learn about Hindutva ideology, anti-conversion laws, and the resilience of believers like Harry, who continue to stand firm in faith despite intense opposition. Get insights into the global fight for religious freedom and the need for prayer and support for persecuted Christians."

What challenges do Christians really face in India today, and how does one stand firm in faith amidst persecution? Join us for a compelling discussion with Sandra Robson, who dedicates her ministry to supporting the persecuted church, as she shares invaluable insights into the societal and political pressures confronting Christian communities in India. We examine the influence of Hindutva ideology during the ongoing elections and the often-misused anti-conversion laws that threaten religious minorities. Through Sandra's insights and the poignant testimony of Harry, a man who faced intense persecution for his faith, we highlight the urgent need for awareness and prayer.

Harry's story is a testament to the resilience of faith. Despite being ostracized by his family and targeted by extremists, Harry's commitment to his beliefs never wavered. Supported by the global community, including organizations like Open Doors, he finds strength in scripture and the fellowship of believers worldwide. As we explore Harry's journey, we consider broader geopolitical issues that affect believers globally, from Pakistan to Ukraine, reminding us of the interconnected nature of faith-based struggles.

Amidst violence and hardship in places like Manipur, where Christians are being pressured to abandon their faith, we witness incredible acts of bravery and perseverance. With the closure of thousands of churches due to anti-conversion laws, new fellowships continue to emerge, underscoring the power of faith to triumph over adversity. Sandra Robson and our guests inspire us to support and pray for persecuted believers and remind us of the enduring strength and hope found in faith, urging listeners to stand firm and never give up, for with God, all things are possible.

This podcast offers insight into faith, prayer, Bible teachings, courage, hope, gospel truths, salvation, grace, redemption, kingdom living, worship, discipleship, devotion, prophecy, community growth, and ministry impact, inspiring listeners with Christ-centered discussions and a commitment to kingdom culture.
 
 Dive into powerful discussions that explore timeless biblical truths, providing Christian perspectives on modern-day issues. From discipleship and Christian living to overcoming challenges through a biblical worldview, this podcast equips you with the tools to walk boldly in faith. Whether you're seeking inspiration, biblical answers, or guidance for daily living, Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast offers insight and encouragement rooted in scripture and designed to inspire.

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Speaker 1:

Good afternoon and welcome. We thank you so much for joining us across the earth. Right now it is almost quarter to five. Here within the UK, it is thursday afternoon. Whatever your day may look like, it is the 30th of may. We pray as sandra robson is with us today and as we are just in this half-term break, and we thank god for sandra's ministry, her life, as she's, uh, moving around in the area of education. You know, looking after the children, that's what her job is. But her calling, we know what her calling is, and that is to the persecuted church and to the suffering church, and we thank god for sandra's life. She's going to share stuff on manapur, india, all the things that are happening within certain areas.

Speaker 1:

We're on open doors. If anyone wants to have a a quick look through open doors, it's a fantastic site there opendoorsukorg I correct myself there, so it's opendoorsukorg. Go on there. It's a great site, easy to navigate. You've got a lovely donate button. You can find all the prayers and everything that goes along with that. But it's a beautiful site. It's smooth, it's easy. That's where we are today. There is a lot of things going on around the world and we thank you, wherever you are at this moment for your steadfastness to the gospel of jesus christ, for following everything that we do here in the world of podcasting. Thank you, and could we ask you to share out all these podcasts that we do right across the platform, right across the, the cultures that we interview and the services that are online? Please, if you could share all this stuff out, don't download it and let's get it around the globe. But god bless you, wherever you are right now, in the mighty name of jesus christ.

Speaker 2:

Amen, sandra hello it's good to have you back with us yeah, thank you, and it's true what you say.

Speaker 2:

There's an awful lot going on and I've had quite a few emails in the last well, last couple of days actually and one of them saying that there's been another large kidnapping of some Nigerians. So I'll look into that and see you know what that's about next time and do a bit of a news roundup. But what I wanted to do today was finish off India and just reminding people that still the elections are in their final stages, that they will be counting up the votes very soon, and yeah, and then we will know what's happened. So we just wanted to look at some of the things that I briefly mentioned. I've got a great testimony of a guy to give you an idea how the church is coping with all the different pressures, and then looking at Manipur, where there was that terrible violence back in May last year. So that's what I want to look at today and also give you some ideas of what you can be involved in and some prayers.

Speaker 1:

Excellent, sandra. Can I just quickly jump on a moment now? Sandra is bringing a lot of information today and the majority of this information, as I said, you can find it within the the elections within india. Again, opendoorsukorg. You will find everything that sandra is reading from looking at. You will find it online, um, and it's, it's well worth. You know. You can just download this stuff straight away, straight online. You've got it, you can download it, you can print it off, you can uh put it in your bible. You can take the church. You can print it off, you can put it in your Bible, you can take it to church, you can share it away and it's got prayers at the end of that as well. So there's big things happening within India at this moment. Critical point. It's a critical point for this enormous large country. You know so much. Well, it's a continent, isn't it? It's actually a continent. Yeah, it is it. Yeah, it is, it's a continent. So when you look at all this, you know how many? Is it? 1.3, is it Something like that?

Speaker 2:

A ridiculous amount of people 1.3 billion. It's made up of lots of states.

Speaker 1:

Yes, 28, I believe, is it? I think it's made up of 28. Anyway, there's a little bit of stuff there, but, sandra, sit back, grab yourself a cup of tea, coffee. You know, you know wherever you are, you're traveling, whatever you're doing across the world, and for those that are listening and we know there are people that listen in india may god strengthen you and we pray that that god will move very, very powerfully in the days ahead, that that you're uh, you're blessed with, with miracles in your life. Sandra, come on okay.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, we were looking last time at um hindufa and what that is that, that that's the ideology, that to be Hindu is to be Indian, and that's what Christianity is up against now and this idea that you know, they want to be nationalist and so they've created these anti-conversion laws, which are supposed to protect everybody and prevent people from being enticed into converting, but it's been misused, as we said. So I want to just tell you about this guy and just an amazing you know conversion, but very typical of you know the way that people come to Jesus, and I've heard of people coming this way through the people that we know. So this happened some time ago that this guy, a pastor, visited his village to talk about Jesus, and this guy, harry, was very intrigued by that, but he was a bit cautious, he was a bit wary because he knew even then about the dangers and that he knew that families who previously said they would follow Jesus had been thrown out of the village, and so he watched as three families came to Jesus and, sure enough, they were driven out of the village. And because sometimes it's not Hinduism particularly, there are other beliefs in India and this one was a tribal belief and everything is of course caught up in that their culture, their history, and everything is of course caught up in that their culture, their history. And so they felt that these people were going against all that they stand for, and so that's why they were angry with them and they told them to get out and see that Christianity is a foreign religion, and they didn't want to know them. But what happened was they fled to this pastor's village and he heard how they were welcomed, and Harry says I was so amazed at the love these Christians showed each other. I knew this was the God that I wanted to believe and follow.

Speaker 2:

From then on, there was no turning back for me. So, sure enough, his parents threw him out. My brothers and sisters forced me to leave the house because of my newfound faith, but that didn't deter him at all. In fact, he decided to dedicate himself to full-time ministry in his village with many people. Then later on you know this is some time later he's gone back and God has really blessed him and now people are turning to Jesus and so there was an amazing church growth.

Speaker 2:

But we know, when this happens and now we're coming into these times of the extremists that they accused him of breaking the peace, and so there was false accusation going on saying he was breaking the anti-conversion laws, but they didn't find any actual proof. So although they arrested him, they then had to let him go, and so he continued his ministry, and the next time they find him he's baptising people. And so then the police say you know, how are you doing this? Well, people are coming of their own free will. I'm not, you know, I'm not telling them they have to come. So again the police let him go. So everything seemed to be OK until Easter.

Speaker 2:

And then what happened was that the extremists came in, disrupted the service and threatened all the believers, drove them out. And again Harry found himself in the police station and being questioned, and the police asked him who gave you the right to do this? And this reminds me today I've been looking at Acts 4, and that's exactly what the Sanhedrin said to Peter and John. They said who has given you authority to do this? In whose name do you do this? And he said you know, the Indian constitution gives me the right to preach my Bible, and God, whom I worship, also gave me the right to preach.

Speaker 2:

And that's what they said. You know Jesus, you know that's who. And so he says I don't force people, they hear my preaching and if they like it, they come to church. But this time the police refused to listen because they were really being leaned on by these extremists and um, they were told that, you know if they, if he was allowed to open his church, um, you know there would be real trouble and they threatened to kill him. Even in the police station they threatened to kill him unbelievable isn.

Speaker 2:

So anyway. So that's what's happened. Harry's church had to close and he says we now gather in secret. And he said we take precautions. But I am confident that even if they kill me for my faith, I want to continue to serve the Lord Christ, who has given me his life, and all these years he has given me his life and all these years he has protected me amongst all these threats. I know there is so much work yet to complete for God's kingdom. In every disappointing moment I was reminded of 1 Chronicles, 28, 20, and I had that there last week.

Speaker 2:

be strong and courageous and such a powerful verse that is and do the work, do not be afraid or discouraged for the lord god my god is with you.

Speaker 2:

He will not fail you or forsake you until all the work for the service of the temple of the lord is finished. So if there's anybody out there who's been discouraged or being intimidated, um, you know that's, that's for you as well, and we know that our brothers and sisters as well. You know remembering that has brought them great comfort and you know they're carrying on in him and in boldness. So he says thank you, because obviously, with his church closed he hasn't got any income, and so Open Doors found out about it. Open doors, partners found out, and they've been able to give him some money. And now he's set up a little business and so he's still ministering, but you know, secretly all things work together for good and.

Speaker 2:

But he's got this little business and praise god. Thank the lord for that and he says just wonderful to know that brothers and sisters across the the lord for that, and he said it's just wonderful to know that brothers and sisters across the world think of me and as such a blessing. So yeah, so I thought that was a lovely, lovely testimony and gives you an idea of the sort of thing our brothers and sisters are facing in india they really are facing some serious atrocities, aren't they really?

Speaker 1:

And we thank God for the partners who are out there. We thank God for the financial givers, the prayer partners, for those that read and carry India in prayer. You know it's such an enormous place, so much going on out there, and we do lift up India right now and all the atrocities that went on in Manipur and so many other things that are breaking out under the table that haven't come through and actually haven't filtered through. So there's always things to pray for within India and we just ask you, lord, that you will do a miracle and you will, dear God, give them. You know a Bible-believing believer in the area of the political arena, now, that is a miracle to ask for, because we know what way they're going and we just say, lord, india, if any time in their existence needs a miracle, is right now. So, please, lord, we trust you. Jesus. Lots going on sandra, in india, the surrounding areas. We have to mention the world as well. Yeah, pakistan, pakistan, and also just thought about Ukraine and Russia, also very, very important that we understand.

Speaker 1:

You know, israel got to be very careful what we listen to, and we must be careful when you listen to mainstream media because they are anti-Christ. So they will be anti anti everything that Israel is doing. And we're not talking about the political. We don't follow Israel politically, we follow them biblically. We don't follow any country politically, we follow everything through the word of God. So we just pray right now for peace. I think it's important, as we are ramping up for quite a lot of things at this moment in time, within Israel as well, all these nations, these persecuted nations, and we just ask you, god, that you'll bring peace. But we know what the answer is, we know what the good book says. So, lord, you strengthen us for these end days that we're in. Sandra, where are you disappearing off to?

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, we're still in India and we're in Manipur, so we're still in India. And we're in Manipur, so we're going to go to Manipur.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and as I said, last year, may 3rd 2023, there was a terrible uprising. It was very, it was complicated, but on investigation, they found that, you know, it was deliberately increased to be anti-Christian, so it was an opportunity for the Hindu extremists to just trash and burn and kill, and it's just shocking what happened. And the police stood by, people stood by and allowed it to happen, and so that's why they're saying, you know, that it was religiously motivated, but it's still ongoing. Unfortunately, there are still, there's still violent outbreaks there. That is more like to do with the land and the different tribes that are there, but there's still also, you know, other elements involved as well. And so these people, I mean, it's just terrible what happened. I mean, over 400 churches were burned down, I mentioned in the past, and lots of people lost their homes, and so now they're in camps, relief camps, and lots of people lost their homes, and so now they're in camps, relief camps, and so Open Doors have gone back to find out how things are going, and so this is what you know, they say. So Ravi took Open Doors partners round a relief camp and he says, though it seems that the violence has subsided, strife at the border areas between kuki and mette people groups still persists. People are afraid to return to their houses, hence they continue to stay in the camps. Since there is no proper income source for people in the camp, they continue to depend on relief distribution programs. Sometimes we're out of food, but God has always sent someone to meet our needs, including open doors. Amidst the war and violence, these people continue to gather every evening for prayer and fellowship. I think God wants to gather his people, to listen to him and trust him more.

Speaker 2:

Despite the disheartening circumstances, says Ravi, among those who fled was a pregnant woman, esther, and she was eight months pregnant at the time, and she said I had to run for my life. I didn't think my baby would survive. I had a four-year-old daughter and I was extremely worried for that, you know. But she praised the Lord, I gave birth to my baby recently and it gives me so much joy to hold him in my arms and see him safe. Thank you so much for your help with all the relief items. They are so much needed.

Speaker 2:

Then, in another place, honu, she said that she had to escape from her hometown, which is currently being occupied by Hindu extremists, and she now lives in a hall with 68 Kuki families and around 270 people in all. So it's quite, you know, cramped and um, she's something that's painful. And we hear this. You know, with nigeria, don't we, that she saw people she knew at being as the attackers, you know, and that was so that hurt so much that they were people who we'd shared our food with, we'd had festivals, and there they were smashing up our windows, our vehicles, our goods and taking everything. And she sadly witnessed the brutal, you know some terrible things. And she says whenever I read the Bible, I have peace in my mind that God is planning something good for us. I trust in God and my hope is that God will help us, god will guide us, and so she is very grateful.

Speaker 2:

And then another guy Fang. He says violence was extreme in my village. They burnt down my houses, churches, everything, and one of my friends was brutally murdered when I had to flee from the village. I was terribly angry. I wanted revenge. However, when I came to the relief camp, I saw the love of god through what people all over the world were sharing with us. We want to thank everyone who has helped us through prayers, emergency support. Please continue to pray for us. So that's where things are at.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the word that keeps springing to my mind is you know, pray, pray, pray, pray. You know, keep praying. So, wherever you are, the word is just pray. Well, not just pray, because it's so, so, so important.

Speaker 2:

Well, they did have a week of prayer, but that's gone now. From the 3rd to the 9th of May they did have particular prayers for Manipur, but you might be able to find that and still pray those prayers. I mean, there's no reason why not. I was saying before, wasn't I, that on the front of the magazine for May, june it says Indian Church's Extraordinary Faith and there there's a burnt out part of the church but the cross is still there.

Speaker 1:

Wow, look at that picture. So on the front of this magazine between May and June 2024, we've got a very interesting picture. It's indian, the indian church's extraordinary faith. It is a picture of like a burnt out wall that is hard anything. It's all scorched. But when you look at the cross, yeah, is that x amount of uh area that hasn't been touched is quite. It's amazing to look at that. We've seen that before. Brothers and sisters, it's wooden as well. It's wooden that should have gone.

Speaker 2:

But anyway you know that's it.

Speaker 1:

What an image.

Speaker 2:

I know, and so the next bit is that they spoke to the open doors partner. Next bit is that they spoke to the Open Doors partner, aj, and he's very close to things, and they've suggested that you watch this video about AJ and you may see some of what we're talking about. You know there's some pictures here and it says that's part of the video. I haven't looked at it yet, but I hope to soon. So AJ is an open doors partner from the Hindu majority Mete tribe and he remembers. He says they were shouting you tribal people and followers of the tribal God come out.

Speaker 2:

And after setting the church on fire, they began to attack the houses, throwing bricks and smashing the doors with axes, which has been terrifying. My family and I were very scared. We watched helplessly as things that I took years to build were burnt down to ashes within a few hours. It was heartbreaking. As the situation worsened, church leaders became targets and AJ it's amazing managed to get them to safety. It wasn't easy for him and he managed to get others to safety, so praise God for that. I found out that some pastors were being forced to sign an agreement stating they would return to their previous faith. They would not rebuild their churches or hold new worship services, and they would not convert people to Christianity. If they refused to sign this agreement, they were threatened with dire consequences you can't believe?

Speaker 1:

well, you can believe.

Speaker 2:

It's back to the sanhedrin, isn't it go?

Speaker 1:

back to the scriptures and it goes right back to the word. Everything goes back to the word of god exactly what they do.

Speaker 2:

They just try and snuff out the whole thing they just want to, but again, it's against christ and we know that it's a spiritual battle. Um, so he said we were uncertain about our survival and had no food to eat. I remember, remember. I please pray for them because there was a blockade and they couldn't get food in.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, it was a very desperate situation. They were on their last bread, you know, because it was, you know people were scared to go in but also there was like a curfew and things going on. So when Open Doors partners approached them, they were overjoyed, they gave them a safe house to live and provided groceries. And he says we are not alone in the battle of faith, that the body of Christ is present with us in every step, whether pain or joy. So prayer, support and teaching through the persecuted survival training has been great. I have the strength now to encourage my fellow believers because I have been encouraged through you. Aj still lives in the area helping pastors conduct their ministries safely. God has been protecting us, he says, and these people might destroy our buildings, but they can never destroy God's people. So there we go. So that's an update from Manipal Amazing.

Speaker 1:

Completely and absolutely amazing. An update from Manipal. You know, please, God, we need an out point of your spirit, Lord, we need a great move of your glory. Come God, Come Holy Spirit. Sandra, where else are we at?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's it. I thought we would you know pray for these places and you know, think about what we can do. So again, praying for the Supreme Court, you know that it will uphold the Constitution and strike down any anti-conversion laws and whatever happens with these elections, that will remain and the leaders will respect the Constitution.

Speaker 1:

Amen. Thank you, Jesus.

Speaker 2:

We pray for the peaceful resolution of the conflict in Manipur and that again, the new leaders, those who are elected, will bring an end to the violence that is continuing. A safe return for all those who are displaced. As we said, they're in camps and they really want to go back, but it's not safe. They're in camps and they really want to go back, but it's not safe. So we pray that you know that will be enabled to be happened and God will do something there through people seeing how the Kuki and the Meti Christians come together and support one another and encourage one another and bless one another.

Speaker 1:

Yes, father, please God, and encourage one another and bless one another. Yes, father, please God.

Speaker 2:

And we're not against each other. And yeah, and he says you know, pray God's blessing for their ministry in Manipur to strengthen the church there and help the partners there who are ministering to the displaced and grieving, because many were killed and you know they lost loved ones that the violence yet will subside. And then it says pray for provision of shelter in the refugee camps and that God will comfort the believers and heal them and renew their faith. So that's the things. And then there are some prayers for India, and I'm going to be busy next week. I'm working all week, so I thought I would bring these. So I just turned over the page and saw from the 1st of June it's all about India. And so it says that Interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 2,200 Indian churches have been destroyed or shut down last year. That's just amazing.

Speaker 1:

How many?

Speaker 2:

2,200 Indian churches were destroyed or shut down. Last year 2,000.

Speaker 1:

Since the anti-conversion laws 200 churches have been closed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So when I equate that to the size of the movement of Elim in the UK, there's approximately 750 churches. If we said 700, 750 churches, Maybe it's like if we said 700, that's three times the amount of the Elim Movement church within India in the last.

Speaker 2:

In the last year.

Speaker 1:

In the last year alone.

Speaker 2:

Please God, but many new churches and fellowships have sprung up in other places, so it's not all negative, but it is shocking that this has happened.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, when you equate it to a movement here in the UK obviously because I'm from the early movement so I've got an idea of the figures so you think it's like three times the size of that movement has been closed, closed, closed. But the big but is the but is God will build his church.

Speaker 2:

Amen.

Speaker 1:

And the gates of hell shall not prevail. So God is doing a new thing when you're doing it. Isaiah 43, I'm doing it now and he says do not dwell in the form of things. There we go. What's?

Speaker 2:

that I will build my church and in the form of things.

Speaker 1:

There we go. What's that?

Speaker 2:

I will build my church and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. That's exactly what it says there Exactly what it says.

Speaker 2:

My next prayer point and this very brave couple here both being beaten and attacked. Their church was attacked. They were both injured and beaten unconscious, but they've chosen to remain in their village and minister there. Pray for their healing and protection and for the comfort of their children, who still struggle with fear. And many members of I hope I say this correctly Naradandran's church have also been threatened and are too afraid to attend services. Ask the Lord to change the attitudes of those who are opposing the church so that those believers can meet freely. And he says the more we face persecution, the more the Lord will bless our ministry. We have hope in God for our future. Pray that Naradarans, a courageous Tesmi, would strengthen the church and draw many more from his village. So thank the Lord that, yeah, he survived this attack and that God's given him the grace to remain there.

Speaker 1:

It can only be a move of the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 2:

Your enemies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it can only be a move of God.

Speaker 2:

So ask God to change the hearts of these Hindu extremists opposing the growth of Christ's kingdom in india. Pray they would see jesus and change, be changed by his love. Yeah, so that's a real thing. And also they're saying the open doors partners are also facing persecution themselves. So pray for their protection and discernment to know how best to strengthen the church in this season, challenging season.

Speaker 2:

So those are there we go prayers lord that we want to bring before you. You know you love your people in india and you're doing amazing things and you know, I know of um, the great testimonies of healings Lord, and you know you are just going to move through this, in spite of what man tries to do. You will do all because you love these people. You love them and you know, we know, that you have a great vision for India. That you have, you know, and I thank you, lord, for the people we know there and I pray that you bless them and encourage them and strengthen them and bless them in all the good work they do in your name. I have power of your Holy Spirit, and things you can do to help are email your MP, watch the videos and get some idea and so that you can really stand along, I find watching the videos helps me identify with the person you know, and so I definitely encourage that.

Speaker 2:

The campaign hash place. What is it? It's that? Yes, hash. Isn't it Place to worship? Is the campaign that Open Doors are running because 2,200 churches have been closed or destroyed? So now they're saying come on, this is meant to be a democracy, so let's highlight this there should be a place to worship, pray for the leaders, for wisdom, so yeah, so yeah, that's really.

Speaker 1:

We're there, are we.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's it, sandra. We thank you so much from the very bottom of our heart. And you said something there. You said a hashtag, hashtag, place of worship place to worship.

Speaker 2:

It's a place and then a number two worship okay, so there you go.

Speaker 1:

You know hashtag place and then obviously the uh numeric, uh number two. Put the two there and then hashtag to uh place to worship very, very important. So we can look at that. You know you can find out that on all the social networks. Very, very important that we support that. So if you want to find out where we've been, we've been in opendoorsukorg and you can find all the information which is very, very relevant to everything that's going on at this moment in time. So, wherever you are scattered across this world, as we always say, never give up, never giving stand on the word of god. God is with you. All things are possible to those who believe.

Speaker 1:

Support uh, subscribe, share everything out that uh, we are doing here. You can support the show. Just go onto that into spotify or apple and you'll find the little button there that just says support the show. That would be amazing for two pound or three pound, or it might even say buy us a cup of coffee, depending what one you are. You can support us and you can pray for us. It's really, really important that you pray for us here. But you can find everything that we do. All the podcasts that we have can be found online on all the major platforms. Regarding podcasting, and just look for Reverend Ben Cooper's podcast and they will come up. All this stuff that Sandra's brought to the table year in, year out, time after time, again, all the other podcasts, all the other stuff is there. God bless, have a great day wherever you are. Never give up, never give in. God is with every one of you. God bless, take care.

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