Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Reverend Ben Coopers podcast, offers an inviting space for listeners to explore Christianity and spiritual growth with wisdom, humor, and a deep commitment to biblical truth. Through Rev. Ben's engaging conversations with guests, the podcast not only explores the timeless wisdom of the Bible but also tackles the pressing issues of life, faith, and hope in a way that is accessible, thought-provoking, and enriching. Whether you’re seeking spiritual nourishment, answers to life’s big questions, or simply a place to reflect on your faith, the Rev Ben podcast is a valuable resource on your journey.
In each episode, Rev. Ben guides listeners through profound theological reflections, personal stories, and practical insights drawn from the Bible and the broader Christian tradition.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
The Divine Encounter Beyond Organized Religion (#707 Elim)
Ever felt that organized religion can sometimes feel more like a club with secret handshakes than a path to spiritual fulfillment? We kick off this episode by tackling the challenging dichotomy between religion and a personal relationship with Jesus. From our humble beginnings during the chaos of COVID to now, we share our personal journey through faith, highlighting stories of liberation and truth that come from transcending traditional religious boundaries. Our conversation peels back the layers of religious structures, exposing the power dynamics and manipulation that can overshadow genuine spiritual connections.
Picture churches as secretive organizations with agendas that often prioritize hierarchy over honesty. We scrutinize this perception, using humor and historical reflection to question the cultural roots of Christian denominations. Our discussion challenges the intertwining of religion with business, humorously pondering the Italian stereotypes woven into Christianity's cultural history. We delve into the teachings of Jesus, particularly his conversation with Nicodemus about spiritual rebirth, and marvel at God’s choice to create humanity with all its flaws. The episode underscores a radical truth: the kingdom of God is found not in rituals but in a reborn spirit.
Jesus exists beyond church walls and religious confines, revealing himself in unexpected places—dreams, visions, even secular music. We explore this theme, reflecting on how structures like Solomon's temple contrast with the grandeur of God's omnipresence. Through biblical narratives, we examine the divine presence, cautioning against false prophets and the pitfalls of religious misunderstanding. Our journey culminates with a heartfelt invitation to seek a personal connection with Jesus, promising a transformative path to true freedom that transcends organized religion. Join us as we navigate the intricate dynamics of faith, power, and divine presence, offering a fresh perspective for those craving authenticity over tradition.
"Discover the life-changing power of a personal relationship with Jesus in Reverend Ben Cooper’s podcast. This episode uncovers spiritual fulfillment beyond the boundaries of organized religion, diving into biblical truths, Jesus’ teachings on spiritual rebirth, and the omnipresence of God in dreams, visions, and everyday moments. Explore how authentic faith transcends church walls, exposing false prophets, challenging religious traditions, and embracing Jesus’ message of freedom, truth, and transformation. Perfect for listeners seeking Christian podcasts on spiritual growth, faith beyond tradition, and insights into living a Christ-centered life."
This podcast offers insight into faith, prayer, Bible teachings, courage, hope, gospel truths, salvation, grace, redemption, kingdom living, worship, discipleship, devotion, prophecy, community growth, and ministry impact, inspiring listeners with Christ-centered discussions and a commitment to kingdom culture.
Dive into powerful discussions that explore timeless biblical truths, providing Christian perspectives on modern-day issues. From discipleship and Christian living to overcoming challenges through a biblical worldview, this podcast equips you with the tools to walk boldly in faith. Whether you're seeking inspiration, biblical answers, or guidance for daily living, Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast offers insight and encouragement rooted in scripture and designed to inspire.
Key Topics Covered:
- Faith and Prayer
- Bible Teachings
- Discipleship and Christian Living
- Overcoming Life’s Challenges
- Spiritual Growth and Kingdom Living
https://www.pastorbencooper.co.uk/
Welcome to Reverend Ben Cooper's podcast. We are a radio and podcast ministry based here within the UK. Your support is vital through prayer and through sowing a seed of faith. We are so thankful to have so many people around the globe downloading and listening to our podcasts, whether you are on Spotify, apple Podcast, google, alexa, amazon Music and so many other platforms. For more information about our ministry, please find us on pastorbencoopercouk. We would love to hear from you as you partner with us as we reach the world for Jesus Christ. Please send us an email through our contact form on pastorbencoopercouk. Also, you can find our latest books on Amazon under hashtag one, hashtag two and hashtag three under Christian Straight Talk hard-hitting, real-life conversations taken from our podcasts.
Speaker 1:Your financial gifts play a crucial role in supporting our radio ministry, helping us share the gospel through these podcasts and providing free copies of the Gospel of John and Bibles around the globe. Please pray for this ministry as we stretch out beyond the boundaries, as we walk by faith. If you'd like to support our mission, please consider clicking the support button on Spotify, apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout. You can give a one-time gift or set up a regular contribution of three pounds, five pounds, eight pounds or ten pounds. You can also leave a legacy by clicking in the links within pastorbencoopercouk. Thank you for partnering with us in this ministry as we spread the message of hope far and wide through this radio ministry. So, whether you are on the daily commute or at home listening to our podcast, grab a cup of coffee, sit back, relax and enjoy. How are we going?
Speaker 2:It's us 're back in. It's been a long, long, long, long, long time leia, let's chat about we're back, we're back, we're just gonna have a ramble. We just decided to have a ramble we're gonna have a chat about what about?
Speaker 2:we're gonna have a chat about religion religion wow I'll tell you what that that word is a powerful word, and we've been podcasting together for a long time now. We had a little break, didn't we? Life got busy and one thing and we said, oh, should we just? Should we just, should we just? You know, and it's really interesting to see what's going on in the world, since we was departed.
Speaker 3:I think we started at the beginning of COVID.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then we sort of had little breaks, and then come back and then little breaks and then come back Backwards and forwards. Yeah, and here we are.
Speaker 2:We're back. Here I am, here we goes, we're back.
Speaker 3:Opposite my brother.
Speaker 2:Opposite me sister, you know, and we are going to talk about a really really, really, really dangerous word, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so religion.
Speaker 2:What is it? Where does it come from?
Speaker 3:People say to me oh, do you go to church? Oh, do you go to church? I say yes, I do go to church. They say, oh, are you religious? I say no, no, I'm not religious.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:I say no, and I use a strong word. I say I actually hate religion.
Speaker 2:Dangerous, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, they look at me like I'm mad.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And I say I love Jesus, I have absolute faith in Jesus.
Speaker 2:This is the key.
Speaker 3:But I do not like religion.
Speaker 2:It's dangerous. How do you feel about religion? Don't like it. Dangerous about religion, don't like it. I really don't like it when people ask me that question and say, no, I'm a bible believing, believer.
Speaker 3:You're a bbb, I'm a bbb bb.
Speaker 2:I'm a bible baby. Yeah, I'm a bible believing believer. But actually, in all seriousness, what I actually say now is I'm a born-again christian. Yeah, because people can relate to that.
Speaker 2:But then you get the, the ones that go oh, you're one of them happy clappy you're noisy you are because when we start to label ourselves with religion, when you look at the wars that are happening everywhere, all done under the name of religion exactly, and I'm afraid to say certain things that are happening in certain areas of religion at the moment, covering certain things up, which, which is quite scary and you know, walking with Jesus is not a religious way in any way, shape or form. It's the complete opposite.
Speaker 3:Jesus is not a sect.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 3:Jesus is not a compartmentalised set of rules that you have to follow in order to get a bargain to get into heaven. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
Speaker 2:You know he's the king, isn't he? So when you look at Jesus and religion, they don't fit.
Speaker 3:They don't fit.
Speaker 2:How could you ever box when you think about it? It's silly really, isn't it? Yeah, because religion boxes. Religion is controlled. Religion is manipulative. Religion is manipulative. Religion is completely controlled in every area. But when you look at Christ, if you try to put Jesus in a religious room, it ain't going to work. It's not going to work. You can't make Jesus a religion or a religious way, because there is freedom, yeah, freedom. John 8, 32,. You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Speaker 3:Free.
Speaker 2:Freedom.
Speaker 3:So is it that my tummy's going to rumble, just so? You know people at home? But is it that religion was created because God, jesus, love? Everything is too massive for us to understand, so we have to? Well, they did take little parts of it and say no, I'm going to follow that box, I'm going to go down that avenue, that's my lane.
Speaker 3:And then somebody else is swimming in the same water and goes no, I'm going to go down that lane. And then somebody else is swimming in the same water but goes down that lane. Then someone else is in a completely different pool going. I'm swimming backwards, I'm doing a butterfly, exactly is that the reason why religion occurred or is it? Because people want to control other people it's so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all man, isn't it so when you trace it all the way back to the roman empire, yeah, you trace it all the way back to the roman empire, and and at the point of the cross, and go right the way back when you went. So, jesus, you can't be a christian, you can't be a born-again believer and be a religious person.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So when you look at religion, where did religion come from? It's come out of the understanding of man making up a set of rules, and it's called itself the church. Yeah, when we talk in the Christian way of it and there's many religious areas across the world religion looks like so many different things. But in the Bible, when it talks about let's just use this quickly when it talks about religion and Christianity, what it's referring to is the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God cannot be controlled by man, because Jesus says I hold the keys, I hold the keys. So he's a key holder.
Speaker 3:So in Christ he's got one of those ones that comes off on a little bit of elastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I reckon it's on a chain because he's a beefy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like a dude, yeah, and he keeps the keys in his pocket so he comes down in a loop.
Speaker 2:He comes down in a loop and he's got his skinny jeans on. Yeah, and the chain's just swinging about. Yeah, he's got some swag as he walks through the streets of Jerusalem, gets out of his transit van, puts his carpentry tools away you know I mean and he puts on the side of it there is no tools left in here overnight, because if you break in this van I'm gonna set hell on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, imagine having a sticker like that on Jesus's maybe he does it so that he can forgive people of their sins when they do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe he's got a load of lions in the back of the transit van, or what would his name be if he had a transit van? And he was a built. He was a comforter, I don't know. Jesus the woodworker.
Speaker 3:Dovetail.
Speaker 2:Dovet know Jesus the woodworker, dovetail, dovetail Jesus.
Speaker 3:That's his favourite Jesus the builder.
Speaker 2:I'll build your home and build your life.
Speaker 3:Oh I like that Come on.
Speaker 2:Jesus, yeah come on. I like that Stairway to heaven oh yeah, I specialise in staircases, oh dear, do you know what? Anyway, what were we talking about? Religion, religion, right, religion, religion is dangerous Religion comes out of. So, if you Look, we all talk about it a lot. Let's take Catholicism, church of England and even certain areas.
Speaker 3:I've just been reading a book about the. Ira, which is where it's hitting me this whole idea Because you've got people.
Speaker 3:So we can sit here and say it was created by man to control people or it was created by man in order to try and understand something. But there are people in the world who, because of religion, will wholeheartedly believe that they have to destroy other people. Yes, and it's not that they think that they're wrong. It's not that they think they're wrong. It's not that they think they're. They're sad that they have to do it. They're like you know, I feel terrible that I'm having to do this, but I need to save you.
Speaker 2:But where does the teaching come from? Because if you look at the teachings of Jesus Christ in the book of Acts regarding the church, matthew and all that, go into all the world, teach and preach and make disciples of you know, feed your brother, your sister who's hungry, love thy neighbor, all that stuff. So religion doesn't do that. I know it does it to a little bit, but what we're saying is it it's, it can's violent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's violence, and I'm not saying that the Catholics were worse than the Protestants in this situation. No, because it's all religion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all religion.
Speaker 3:And they wholeheartedly believed in their hearts and in their souls that they were doing the right thing. It's like how?
Speaker 2:How can you? Because it's not biblical to be that way in time, if you say, are that? They say we are the church. So when you look at the birth of the church in the book of acts, chapter 2, it says the holy spirit came down and the holy spirit filled all of them and the holy spirit enabled them the comforter, the dove, it's all peace. So, but then you look at what we call religion, it's violence and it's anger and it's and we are right and it's a hard-faced, nosed, arrogant way, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and then that makes people hate the church they hate yeah yeah, if that's christianity they hate jesus yeah, if that's what it is, I never done that. Look at that, they're fighting petrol bombs. You know all that stuff that goes on and you can understand that, I can and we can understand that.
Speaker 3:Before I was a Christian, I thought the same thing.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:I don't want to be part of an organised religion, organised organisation. Jesus isn't an organisation.
Speaker 2:No, he's not an organisation. When you look at the birth of the church in the book of Acts, it's freedom, holy Spirit, filled Holy Spirit, led, led by Christ, led by the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. So that is the real church, the real church, if anybody out there is looking to understand what is the church. The biblical church is what we've got to follow. Imagine if all of us followed the biblical pattern to the dot. What the church would? There'd be? No, no division, just be love. It would be love, kindness, it'd be the doctrines would be sound. If everybody followed the, the, the book of acts, that the biblical church. What is the interpretation of the biblical church? But we haven't got that, have we? No, because the bible says that jesus said to the biblical church everything that you own, give away, give it, be a servant, be a servant religion wants to own so the church of england, things it's like it's like a.
Speaker 3:It's like they've got jesus is a big cake and they've cut it up and it's I'll have that bit. I'll have that bit, I'll have that bit. Yeah, we'll have the cream you can't, you can't cauterise the parts of Jesus. That's the thing.
Speaker 2:No, not at all, and I feel like that's what religion tries to do.
Speaker 3:It tries to dissect and cauterise rather than just accepting it.
Speaker 2:Because that's surrender, yeah, rather than just accepting it, because that's surrender. Yeah, when you follow, when you are a Jesus follower.
Speaker 3:We're on fire again.
Speaker 2:We're on it tonight. When you're a Jesus follower, surrender is the core point.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you humble yourself and you have to follow the word of God. But when religion is in the arena, it is like you take the Church of England, the land that it owns, the artwork that it owns, the churches that it owns the building, the monies, and Jesus says the complete opposite. He says give everything that you've got away and come and follow me. Drop your nets, Drop your nets, Drop your nets. And when you think about it, did Jesus own a church? Did he own a building?
Speaker 3:No, it was just a walker and a talker.
Speaker 2:And a mover and a shaker, yeah, and a preacher and a teacher. When you look at Jesus, he did not own a building, no, but he owns the world, yeah. When you look at Jesus when you think about this.
Speaker 2:He does not own a building. The tomb that they buried him in was borrowed. Yeah, there is not. Jesus does not need a church. He never had a church. The buildings were around because it says that he went into the synagogues and he went into the temples. So they was around, but Jesus did not put his name. Imagine having that. Who's the pastor of this Jesus? Imagine having him as your pastor.
Speaker 3:Well, he is too. He's the shepherd, he is yeah.
Speaker 2:So when you think Jesus never owned a building, the Pharisees. Didn't he fold up his cloth and leave it on the side? Yeah, that's very, very relevant, that, yeah, yeah. So the grave clothes were folded up.
Speaker 3:That's not even mine. That's not even mine.
Speaker 2:It's all borrowed everything's borrowed the cross was created and and and put. There wasn't even his the tomb. You know when you think about that, that was borrowed, boom. You know when you think about that, that was borrowed. The garden wasn't even his. He went into the garden where he was birthed. No room at the inn. When you think about it, jesus never owned a building.
Speaker 3:But everything about religion owns, wants to own something Exactly.
Speaker 2:Religion has to own. What church do you?
Speaker 3:belong to. Oh yeah, Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:As soon as you mention the old ealing, they go.
Speaker 3:No, but that phrase. What church do you belong to?
Speaker 2:What church? So we have to be very careful how we tell people and we let people know about our belief, because if we say, oh, I go to church, people are going to go whoa, especially now. So your church, that you go to it. It keeps everything under wraps.
Speaker 3:It's a secret club under another club you know the church that I go to now where'd you go?
Speaker 2:I'll go here okay, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course we do yes, all right but the church that's been in the papers that you know that our little friend resigned from not long ago oh, that disgusted me. Oh, that disgusting stuff that's gone on. That's an occult, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, it has to be an occult, because if Jesus isn't the centre and you've got religious order and you've got all that stuff going on, it can't be of Jesus. I'm not saying that there's no area where Jesus isn't in, but the true side of that. Try and find a biblical church when you try and find a church of acts chapter 2, acts chapter 2 that if anyone wants to know what the church should look like, acts chapter 2 and what jesus says go into all the world, preach and teach, make disciples of one another, sell your houses, sell your coat, you know, sell everything you got. Be a servant, go and serve. And the church does take that on a little bit, didn't it?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, we're servants, but actually not really so I'm gonna say something a little bit maybe it's not, it's not you, that's saying this, but in my mind there are parts of the the capital t, capital c church that are a boys club oh, completely yeah, and sometimes now a boys and girls club, yeah, yeah, uh, and that leads to that sense of protection, that that very high hierarchy higher, higher. Yeah, that one of the leaders of the church in England felt that he had to protect somebody that was actually doing a devil's work.
Speaker 2:Doing a serious. Yeah, really really dark stuff.
Speaker 3:And you can say well, who am I to judge someone? Who am I to judge someone? I can imagine him having that conversation with himself.
Speaker 2:Who am I to?
Speaker 3:judge someone. I'm imagine him having that conversation with himself. Who am I to judge someone? I'm not the judge. Jesus is the judge. But come on, come on, but what else?
Speaker 2:What else has gone on in religion that we don't know about?
Speaker 3:Look at certain areas of… and how much of it is led as a business.
Speaker 2:Oh, leah, it's so rich. The church in the UK, the anglican church, is so rich. The catholicism, they're interwoven in a certain way, aren't they really, when you think it's come out of rome, you know catholicism come out of rome and then out of catholicism came the church of england, you know, basically, you know made out and it's come out of all, why was it?
Speaker 3:even based in Italy. That's the thing.
Speaker 2:They love spaghetti. What?
Speaker 3:Jesus loves. Jesus created spaghetti, so that's why he likes it.
Speaker 2:That's why he likes it. That's why it came out of Italy.
Speaker 3:It's called Gis Spaghetti.
Speaker 2:Gis Spaghetti. Yeah, it's a fancy Gis Spaghetti, spaghetti.
Speaker 3:Spaghetti. It's called love lasagna, but if Jesus was all around, you know Bethlehem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:The Middle East, Israel, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That kind of area. Why is the?
Speaker 2:church based in Italy. It's just my great Romans Just saying it Romans, Romans, Romans, Romans, Romans.
Speaker 3:Who wanted to control the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sell him. Not blaming your Italians, no no, no, it's okay when you get back to your pasta Pasta pasta, Pasta pasta. I wonder if there's anyone called pasta pasta. I wonder there's got to be, isn't there? Pasta pasta.
Speaker 3:I wonder there's got to be, isn't there, Pastor? Pastor.
Speaker 2:Can you hear my stomach rumbling? I can? You need some pastor?
Speaker 3:I'm really going for it. Stop talking about food.
Speaker 2:It's really going, but religion. Religion isn't of Jesus.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:We can go to church, we can spend a lifetime in church, but if we're not born again, if we're not, john 3 free. I love the way Jesus talks to Nicodemus. There's no mention of church and religion. There's nothing of this earthly structure that we have, even when Jesus was walking the earth. Back then he went into the synagogues, he sealed the temples and everything like that, nothing to do with buildings. He said you must be born again, nicodemus, born from above, born from God. Everything comes from God, right Following Jesus.
Speaker 3:That's not even a physical birth. So you've got your first birth, which is your physical birth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you get your metaphysical, your spiritual birth.
Speaker 2:Spiritual birth.
Speaker 3:Which is built on nothing to do with physicality, nothing. Nothing to do with gold, Nothing to do with what you own, what you don't own, where you live what you're doing.
Speaker 2:It's all to do with love, the love of god, yeah, the sovereignty of god and the power of god and the goodness of god and the favor of god. And what is absolutely a mind blower is that when god created the heavens and the earth, he knew that humanity would fail. Before he created adam and eve, before he created the garden, before anything was brought into existence. How do we know? Well, the bible says that he knows the end from the beginning, the beginning from the end. There is nothing outside of him that he's not aware of. So, when we look at creation, he created everything with the full understanding that we will foul him at every level but, he still chose to create.
Speaker 2:The bible says for his good purpose, his goodwill and his pleasure, for a way that we don't understand and we don't know. So when you look at the church, it absolutely starting to make me laugh, so much lately, to think that we can think that we can box jesus up, I know in a building, I know with with a, with a steeple and a cross, and these buildings, that we're in thinking that we can, that we can pull him out at every service. All that when, when he was before the foundation of the world.
Speaker 3:Never mind the foundations of a church.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and he says he is the cornerstone, he is that cornerstone, he is that.
Speaker 3:There are some people that design the buildings and studied architecture. Did you know, didn't?
Speaker 2:know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I did. It's part of my A-levels and the whole concept of that. It's supposed to represent the glory of God in that it's shaped as a crucifix, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you have the high spires and everything points upwards because it's all supposed to point up to heaven, point upwards, yeah. It's supposed to. When you're inside it, you're filled with awe. Wow.
Speaker 2:And that's true to a degree.
Speaker 3:Somebody always was the person that paid for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they were paying their way into heaven usually. So money comes into it. You know Business comes into it. I mean, some churches need to have a cafe to keep the lights on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Some churches need to have a cafe to pay the liquor.
Speaker 2:Not you, no, I know, we know, we know what you're saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and that happens so much and it makes me ill because when you watch things like the coronation of the king, who you know is king- he's a king. I am one of those people. I do like a bit of sovereignty.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 3:But he's sitting there saying the prayer from God and he's absolutely dripping with gold and you've got the crowns not one crown, but crowns sitting all around him and his wife's dripping with gold and the bishop's dripping with gold.
Speaker 2:It's everywhere.
Speaker 3:And everyone's dripping in money, and then 200 yards outside, there are people with nothing.
Speaker 2:Food banks? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:And that's something that I can see other people who are not Bible-believing believers. Bible-believing believers can look at Jesus. Faith love and see it as something to be suspicious of because of that.
Speaker 2:Because of that, of course, I get it.
Speaker 3:They look at it and there's loads of memes on Facebook and social media. Other social media platforms are available.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:But there's loads of things on at the moment about oh, here come the Christians coming out and they're going to tell you off for saying Merry Christmas. And I'm like, why? Why would a real Christian tell you off for saying Merry Christmas? Why, why? But somebody who's religious will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course, Because they're like this is mine.
Speaker 3:I own this. How dare you? This is mine. You don't own Christmas.
Speaker 2:How dare you, you don't own.
Speaker 3:Jesus, how dare you? And I'm like look.
Speaker 2:Not as a religion.
Speaker 3:I said to my friend the other day look, I've never met a Christian that didn't say Merry Christmas. You said it's a little bit pagan because it was, you know, built around a pagan festival beforehand. And the fact that there's a tree which was nothing to do with Jesus and the fact that Father Christmas has got nothing to do with Jesus, why did we sit around a tree and not a cross on Christmas Day, just saying Just saying pagan.
Speaker 3:Baby Jesus was meant to fulfil everything to do with love. And when you see the baby Jesus, my little heart contracts and swells and I go. Oh, so innocent.
Speaker 2:Jesus, little baby Jesus, he's going to save everybody and he already loves you.
Speaker 3:And he's a baby At the moment, you don't even know, he's got fingers and toes, but he loves you.
Speaker 2:You know Exactly.
Speaker 3:That's what Christmas should be about to me, but people that are involved in their own little sects of Christmas and religion will take parts of it and say, no, we've got to have a candle that lasts for 52,000 days, or however many days it is, or you can only take the communion if you're blessed by us.
Speaker 3:Or you can only stand in this corner of the church if you're blessed by us, or you can only stand in this corner of the church if you're rich, or you can only your children can only come to this school if you come to church yeah, exactly it's mad, it's crazy people look at us like I think I'm insane, because I'm insane for Jesus.
Speaker 2:I don't think that I'm right.
Speaker 3:I think that.
Speaker 2:I'm far wrong.
Speaker 3:There are many things that are wrong with me.
Speaker 2:And that's a great way to be.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:No, no, it is because we're recognising.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that doesn't make me better than anybody else.
Speaker 2:No no, no, no, no, no but it. But it makes us realize that this is what salvation is about. It's not about the church, it's not about religion. It's about humbling yourself, a sinner saved by grace. I love the fact that we don't need to go to church to find Jesus. I love the fact that he's everywhere. He's rescuing people now that have never been to church. He's setting captives free now that don't even know who he is. He's revealing himself through dreams and visions. He speaks through the wall. He speaks through the carpet. He speaks through secular music. Look at that beautiful, that cracking song out there at the moment, out there, by Coldplay Pray.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, that's Little. Sims Do you remember, we did a podcast on her before Right right, he was brought up in a church, you know. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, what's his name? Coldplay singer Martin Chris Martin. Chris Martin. Chris Martin was brought up in the church. When you listen to that song, it was played at Glastonbury, done it live. It talks about prayer. It talks about being hungry, looking for a higher power, and he referenced Psalm 23. He doesn't actually say Psalm 23,. So, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, when you listen to that song, the whole world is singing it. The whole world is singing it. Jesus speaks through secular music. Yeah, he speaks through bands that, um, that don't even know what they're writing. He speaks for a wall. He speaks for when you're sitting in traffic. He'll speak for a number plate in front of you on a car. He'll speak for an advertising board. He'll speak through the tv. He'll speak through absolutely everything, because he can do what he wants when he wants and he's not restricted to a building controlled by man yeah and that is his power.
Speaker 2:The church wasn't even around. The church wasn't around as we know it until the death I'll use the death because that's what he said, he, jesus, died. The church wasn't around until the holy spirit came after 40 days, after christ went to the cross. So the church as we know it wasn't even. I'm talking about the. The biblical church wasn't birthed until the day of pentecost, so it wasn't even around. When, when christ was ministering and all that, it wasn't even around. When Christ was ministering and all that, the buildings wasn't there. Religion was there, all that stuff was there. Control yeah, that was there. It's never changed, yeah, and that's what it's all been birthed out of.
Speaker 3:I'm sitting here learning so am I. I'm sitting here learning. I'm like what I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:What, when you think about it, jesus went to the cross.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, Because he but, but, but when? Sorry, I've got to go back, go back. So when Jesus was young there, he said he was in his father's house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so was that not the church? That's not the church. That was a synagogue.
Speaker 2:That was a religious that was a religious order. When he pulled the scroll out and that the scroll, no, he didn't. The scroll was given to him, yeah and it and it says uh, the anointing of the lord is upon me. You know, it's unbelievable. The book of isaiah, the scroll was handed to him, so there wasn't the church. We can't say that that was the church, because that was religion. That was the pharisees and the sadducees, that was the lawgivers. That was like Jesus said to Nicodemus Nicodemus, you are Israel's teacher, and you don't know, you don't know me. So Jesus was in his father's house.
Speaker 3:Right, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he's speaking to, he's talking, he's going forward with it as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So the greatest let's use it like this the greatest temple that was ever built was Solomon's temple. Yeah, Solomon, you know, he built this beautiful, beautiful temple, you know, and it was just unbelievable, the instruction. It was the greatest temple, but God was living in it. God was in there. The Bible says God was in there. Living in there, there was angels, cherubins, the power of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:What on earth?
Speaker 2:On earth. Yeah, god was in this temple. See, my brain can't cope with that Unbelievable, but this is Old Testament stuff.
Speaker 3:But my brain can't cope with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I can't. What did?
Speaker 3:he do. Where did he sit?
Speaker 2:I think he just floated.
Speaker 3:Was it, the spirit of God, the presence of God, the glory of God the power of God, Because in my mind he was making a cup of tea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, having a coffee, and that he's sitting at his desk, gabriel go out and get some milk.
Speaker 3:It's your turn.
Speaker 2:Swipe the front yard with your son. Look at the state of it, but the power Right. State of it, but the power right when you think about it. The temple was filled with the power of the holy god. The holiness, the presence, angels, cherubins, the whole nine yards were in there on earth. The bible says that the jewish leaders came into that temple and they started doing their own thing. Did they? In the four corners of the building it says God left the building. And what gate? What way did he go out? He went out the east gate. It's very relevant.
Speaker 3:He went out the, so I remember the bit about God leaving the building.
Speaker 2:So God left, god left.
Speaker 3:What did they do?
Speaker 2:They just carried on, no what did they do to the?
Speaker 3:what did they do? Did they go in and just change the decor?
Speaker 2:or did they go in and change? Rituals and stuff they was doing rituals, they were doing unusual things. Man took his they started right they started, you know so you could just rights exactly. So it was all kicking off, it all went off off. So the presence of God, the angels, the cherubims, the glory, the power, the sovereignty of God. The Bible says that God left through the east gate.
Speaker 3:Why the east one?
Speaker 2:Very important. When Christ comes back, where's he coming? He's coming from the east. You could never work this stuff out.
Speaker 3:You couldn't, could you, so he stuff out. You couldn't could you, so he went out.
Speaker 2:It's almost like Hindu I think you might have known. So he went out. It says the presence of God. He left and everything went away. A man just carried on and didn't even know that he was there and didn't even know. How true of that is that religion? Yeah, so god created the most beautiful looking temple on earth beautiful, no one has ever created anything like it on earth. It was the best of the best of the best. Everything was beautiful beyond. God created that man came in and he didn't know that god was in the building that's scary isn't that so true?
Speaker 3:it's so true so true.
Speaker 2:And also, what's so true, so is god will not be associated with man's control. So man comes in the building, the jewish leaders come in the building, they do what they're doing. They don't even know that the holy glory is in this place. They don't even realize, because if you realized, you would be flat on the floor, completely busted sometimes you get the goosebumps though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sometimes when you're in church and you can feel this, you can feel the holy spirit moving I can feel, god, but I can feel the holy presence presence of a spirit, like not a a spirit, but I just feel you know he's here, you know he's in the building. He's in all he's about. I get shivers down my body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can feel the Holy Spirit really moving. So you see very clearly that God will not be controlled by religion.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:God will not be controlled by man's plans. God is not controllable God. You cannot control the eternal God. He will leave. He's a jealous God. The Bible says he will not share his glory with no man. God will not share his glory with no human being, with no minister, with no preacher. God will not share his glory with no association. God is a jealous God and his ways are just so. Really, in that temple you can see very clearly the disengagement between religion and God.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Religion don't know God. God knows religion, and God will not allow himself to be controlled by religious order will not allow himself to be controlled by religious order.
Speaker 3:And then, obviously, you've got the. Sorry, my tummy is just rumbling away, it's speaking, it is. You've got the. When Moses went to the mountain, spoke to God. The burning bush Spoke to the burning bush, and when he came back down, they'd already created their own religion down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've melted everything. They're having it large down at the bottom of the mountain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, give us your silver rings.
Speaker 2:I want to make a calf.
Speaker 3:Come on, let's make a calf, just this idea of people not being able to understand the wholeness and the fullness and the absolute awesomeness of something. So, therefore, they create what they can.
Speaker 2:Because they want to create that. They think that we're conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 3:Do you know that? Yeah, I know, Actually, they're creating the greatest conspiracy on earth so that they can then talk about conspiracy theories and how bad they are.
Speaker 2:It's all upside down inside out.
Speaker 3:It's the beast that eats itself. It is, yeah, that's what they are. It's all upside down inside out.
Speaker 2:It's the beast that eats itself. It is, yeah, that's what religion is. It's the animal, it's the beast that eats itself. That creates itself and destroys itself.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When I was at the base of the mountain.
Speaker 3:That's good. It was what you just said was so good.
Speaker 2:Was it yeah?
Speaker 3:So, like you said, at the base of the mountain they was creating their own religion because they got a bit bored, didn't they?
Speaker 2:yeah, but they want. Man wants to control everything. He wants to control. He wants to make something and control it and then they ridiculed him yeah, and then, like moses, comes down and his countenance had been changed. He, his complexion, his hair was completely different, his face was shining. See, when you've been in the presence of God, there is a difference. You are different. Religion is arrogant.
Speaker 3:You look well, you look well, thanks, I've got God.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I've got the Holy Spirit. Thanks.
Speaker 3:You've done something new to your hair. Yes, God, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've been at the burning bush. Well, you want to get yourself a job?
Speaker 3:so then also you've got afterwards. Sorry, I'm doing that go on then afterwards, jesus said other people will come in imitation of me in my name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it yeah, yeah, we get that religion comes in in that name, but it doesn't know. It's like when thomas was with, uh, philip, and philip was with thomas and I was having that conversation with jesus and they said show us the father in there and show us the way. And and jesus is saying I'm in front of you, yeah, the father is in front of you. That's like god talking to to religion. I'm in front of you, but you don't recognize me. The reason you don't want to recognize me is because the simple word of surrender comes in. Religion can't surrender. If religion could surrender, it wouldn't own the art that it owns. If religion could surrender, it wouldn't own anything. When you think about it, jesus didn't own anything as we understand it as the church, but he created the world. We know what everyone is thinking. Yeah, because he owns everything anyway, but we're talking about the man, christ jesus. Yeah, the bible says that he is the cornerstone, he is the head of the church, he is the great I am. He doesn't own a building.
Speaker 3:He doesn't own this building you not have one of those massive medallions with all the jewels on it, just massive, like J?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great big J on it. Yeah, and great big rings.
Speaker 3:J Daddy.
Speaker 2:J Daddy and he comes in the arena with the big sovereign rings on.
Speaker 3:Yes, massive sovereigns With a white vest on yeah, but like loads of chains.
Speaker 2:Loads of chains, yeah.
Speaker 3:And rings on every hand.
Speaker 2:And when he walks along, you go, what's that noise? And behind him the devils are on the chain. He's got devils on the chains because he can lasso them and hold them down. He's the daddy of all daddies. He is. That's another thing that I mention a lot in church. You can't call pastors and leaders. You can can't call them daddy, you can't, you can't, you can't, because he is our father. It freaks me out. He is the great high priest people call.
Speaker 3:I don't know what religion it is, so please don't like judge me for saying this, but I don't like it when people call whatever their religious leader is father, because I'm like no it no, it's our father.
Speaker 2:It's our father, it's our father.
Speaker 3:That's not the father, that's a brother.
Speaker 2:You've got to be so careful because then and certain areas of church call their leaders daddy and they bow down to daddy they do. Yeah, I'm not going to say it online because they'll be listening.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get me.
Speaker 2:So they actually and it's cultural, it's a cultural thing, it's a tribal thing, and they call the leader daddy, and you can see them cowering down to him. They're fearful of it.
Speaker 3:That's giving people so much control and that's where the bishops get birthed.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying this is what's happened but when you end up in a situation where they're trying to hide things from each other in their boys' club.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're bowing down. They're bowing down before him. You can see them bowing down. Oh, yes, bishop. Yes, yes, yes. It's not scripture. There's so many churches out there that are not scripture, that they're following their own sect. They're in their own occult world. They've got their own. You've only got to look at TB Joshua. Oh, my goodness, there's an amazing documentary about that man from Lagos. He's all over the channels. He's died now. He's been gone a long time. You've only got to look at that character.
Speaker 3:But the disciples didn't have a hierarchy.
Speaker 2:No, did they? No, no, no, just known as Jesus followers, yeah, just disciples.
Speaker 3:So there was no one in there that was like no, I'm the Pope.
Speaker 2:Hang on a minute. No, I am the Pope, it's me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's me, no, it's me, no, it's me.
Speaker 2:No, it's me. No, it's me. You know, we are the church. When they're sitting around the Passover table, they were just followers, the only label that we can really label ourselves with. Now, in the world of ministry, the fivefold ministry you've got to be careful of ministry, because everyone wants to label themselves up. I'm an evangelist, I'm a deacon, I'm an elder, I'm a preacher. I'm an evangelist, I'm a deacon, I'm an elder, I'm a preacher, I'm a teacher. If you, if you are, I don't want this label that's on me. I didn't ask for this, you know, because it's a tough old number. I tell you I didn't ask for it. No, it's given.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not a job, it's.
Speaker 3:it's the hardest thing, but the most beautiful thing, and I will say for people that have not heard this before you don't accept a penny, no, no exactly.
Speaker 2:No one in this ministry gets a wage. No one does. We have to go out and work yeah. We have to graft. We have to go into the world yeah, and let your light shine.
Speaker 3:That's the way it's supposed to be. What?
Speaker 2:did Jesus do? He sat back and watched Netflix all day.
Speaker 3:He did apparently.
Speaker 2:Apparently, according to the transatlantic preachers and all those lots, yeah, yeah, jesus didn't own an aircraft, he didn't own a Harley-Davidson, he didn't have a mansion. He would look so cool in a Harley-Davidson. Wouldn't he His air flowing, you know it, guns out Little white vests.
Speaker 3:With his little sandals.
Speaker 2:With his little sandals. The police would have stopped him and gone. You can't ride that bike with sandals on Self and safety.
Speaker 3:Do what I want.
Speaker 2:I'm Jesus. I don't care. Don't you tell me who you think you are. You can imagine that, can't you? It's exactly how it is, isn't it? But?
Speaker 3:also what I want to say as well sorry for interrupting you is that just because we believe in Jesus and we don't believe in the different sects, that doesn't mean that we don't have to follow rules no, no it doesn't mean that we don't follow law.
Speaker 2:So what do we follow? We follow the Bible.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We follow the word of God.
Speaker 3:But we also follow the laws of our country.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do Our laws we're quite blessed in that our laws in our country tend to be built around a biblical knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're starting to decrease.
Speaker 3:We won't hurt murder.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, assault.
Speaker 2:No so yes, pillage, oh bad. Isn assault. No, so yes, pillage, oh bad in it. Yeah, so that's just like so when you look at this nation. I'll say it and I'll always say it we are a christian nation.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are. The uk is bible based. It has god in the core. The church doesn't reflect it. It might be awash with all this, this social media rubbish of all these other religions dancing around saying Christianity and the church? Yeah, the church is dying away, but that is religion. The kingdom of God is rising at such a pace it can't be controlled. So when you say, what do we follow? What rules? We follow what the Bible says and then religion says, yeah, well, we do. No, you actually don't. You don't follow that no one can follow it to a T Proven.
Speaker 2:It's been proven In the last two months, exactly Because Jesus said drop your purse, drop your nets, let the dead bury their dead. Come and follow me, seek ye first the kingdom of God. If the church was to do all that, it would own nothing. It would own nothing. Yeah, it would own nothing. Yeah, no art, no land. What do you want the land for? What do you want the art for? What is the purpose of this? Yeah, if you sold the greatest piece of art they had, you could feed the kids in the school for goodness knows how long. Yeah, if you sold the greatest piece of art they had, you could feed the kids in the school for goodness knows how long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how much money. If you sold everything that the church had, you could feed every child. Every house It'd be brimming over with food.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:But the church is religious. Yeah, that's what we're coming to. Religion is in the thread of it. When you understand this is why it's so important to know what John 3.3 means. It's the most simplest teaching, the most powerfulest sermon ever been preached. The greatest message was between two men, jesus and Nicodemus. No cameras, no social media account, no podcasting studios, nothing. In a cold, dark, stony room in the middle of the night, jesus said you've got to be born again. There was no one in the congregation, there was no elders and deacons, there was no one praying for him, there was no music in the background ramping him up. Here comes Jesus. He's going to drop the greatest line. He just said nicodemus, you've got to be born again. Yeah, that, that is all that we need to know.
Speaker 2:Rebirth yeah I'm, I'm reborn, not in the flesh, but I'm in in the spirit because it comes from above. Born again that we all know, means to be born from above, and Jesus chooses who he wants to choose to be born again, not to go to church, because that's just an add-on that we got a concept.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's just a matter of when? That's what Jesus chooses, when?
Speaker 2:Yeah, predestination.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know when you were born again. You know when Jesus touched your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know how God worked in your life and that is the power of the sovereignty of God. It is beyond religion. Religion doesn't know Jesus, but Jesus knows religion. Religion can't control Jesus, but Jesus can control religion and it's blind and it's control religion and it's blind and it's rich and it's wealthy and it hides so much stuff in the darkness yeah jesus exposes everything yeah it's.
Speaker 2:everything is exposed and there is freedom. There is freedom in jesus. If you're, wherever you are, listening to us as we come to bring this one to a land you know, we would say to you now grab yourself a Bible. If you need a Bible, contact us here. Go on the social networks, listen to the intro and the outro. You can get all the information you need. We'll get you a Bible wherever you are across the world. We want to say thank you to the tens of thousands of people across the globe listening and sharing this stuff. Tens of thousands, tens of Tens, tens of Tens of.
Speaker 3:Not bad, considering we started in the old kitchen here.
Speaker 2:Not so bad, considering what we started with a little Focusrite, wasn't it? A little red scarlet box, a little tiny analogue, little tiny thing, your kitchen. The first, very interesting, the first podcast we ever done was actually with Brian Greenaway. That went out was with Brian Israel, the first one we ever done. Yeah, he was the first cat in the door. Nice, he's not a cat, by the way. Don't identify to a cat. Brian Greenaway, you know what I mean? My brother, you know he was the first dog. He doesn't. He doesn't. He was the first human Come on.
Speaker 3:You're just going everywhere now. We're going everywhere. Now We've got to land. It's not a zoo.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it feels like it doesn't it with the. If you can support us in any way, shape or form, that would be amazing, but thank you for the tens of thousands of downloads across the world. Yesterday we pulled some stats up and we was in 70 countries, 980 cities around the world, singapore. Singapore is absolutely accelerating in the world of podcasts with us. Don't know why.
Speaker 3:It's because they trust. This is the thing what I would say to anybody that's listening in those tens of thousands of downloads is that when you listen to this, don't think that you're listening. Don't trust us. Trust Jesus.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3:Don't trust religion. Trust Jesus when you see a meme. When you hear people talk about religion. When you hear people saying, oh, they've got church, happy clappers. When you hear people trying to ridicule people who've got faith. Trust Jesus, not the religion.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 3:Don't think about what church they go to. Nobody belongs to a church.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Nobody belongs to a church. The church doesn't own anyone.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 3:It's just just trust jesus, that's it that's all I'm trying to say just open it up and if you're thinking about, if you're thinking about religion, you're using your head. Yeah, but if you're loving jesus, you're using your heart yeah and if you're in the middle. But this kind of speech that we're giving today, this conversation that we're having, it's not speech. This conversation we're having, if it opens up a tiny little crack in your heart, then that's jesus it's jesus because he opens that door, he opens that area, jesus opens.
Speaker 2:He tenderly and but for sure he opens the door. He is the door, he opens that door.
Speaker 3:He is the door, he opens that door and he is calling you wherever you are today, it's funny because when I first became a Christian sorry, I know we're pushing time when I first became a Christian, I remember saying to you it's like he was always behind a door, yeah, and I opened it and he went oh, there you are.
Speaker 2:There you are At last. Leia, there you are. And he went oh, there you are. There you are At last.
Speaker 3:Leia At last. Yeah, and it's like that has nothing to do with somebody saying I'm opening this door for you.
Speaker 2:That's correct. It's really interesting if you use the door as an analogy, because we might think that we've opened that door, but he's give you the strength to open the door.
Speaker 3:And if anyone is interceding for you between you and jesus. That's not religion, that's religion yeah yeah, that's religion yeah somebody else is trying to guide you. That's religion yeah jesus will talk to you directly yeah don't. We are not talking to you through jesus.
Speaker 2:Jesus will talk to you jesus will talk to you and if you need a bible situated across the other side of the world, wherever you are and so many people listen to this stuff out there we really need your prayers, please. Please, lift us up in prayer. Send some emails in, send some texts in. You know, if you're on Spotify, you're on iHeartRadio, if you're on Alexa and Amazon and all them platforms and Apple Podcasts, when you look and you see you're all very familiar with it. You can see it says support us. So you can click that button, you can support us. You can send us a message in the text as well.
Speaker 2:We'd love to hear from you the reason I've been mentioned in Singapore. We've got no favoritism, please. We are all the same in Jesus, but it's just interesting watching different nations rise. That's all we're doing, you know, and all those in America. America is sitting quite close to the UK. The biggest downloads we got the amount of people is funny enough is actually in the UK. America is next and then it just goes all the way down and everybody you know Germany, spain, france, so many, so many countries. It's amazing. So wherever you are listening to this, I don't understand our Cockney accents. I don't know. I ain't got a clue.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, go on Wherever you are listening to this.
Speaker 2:Wherever you are in the world listening to this, whatever country you are in, whatever nation and city you're in, we thank you that you are downloading all this stuff. We really do appreciate and we thank you and we pray for you, wherever you are. Tell you what. Let's go out in prayer. Let's pray, father, in the name of jesus, we thank you to our brothers and sisters, those dear god that may be in faith, that listen, and maybe those dear god that are not sure of their faith, whoever is listening, father, and we thank you to every ear, ear and every heart and every eye and every person on the other side.
Speaker 2:Father, god of our voices, that you will carry them and bless them and enrich them, and the fire of god will sit over them and they will see the love of God like never before. Guide them, strengthen them. Let healing abound, let there be miracles in their bodies, touch their mind all those that have got mental health. Strengthen them, lord. But, father, we pray in these last days that you will strengthen each and every one of us, that the fire of God and the Holy Spirit will sit on all of us. We love you, jesus. You are the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through you. Bless, leah and myself, every area of life and everybody that listens to our voice today and forevermore Amen.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 2:We thank you so much for listening. Wherever you are, have a great evening. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, we'll see you soon. God bless, thank you, bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to us today on Reverend Ben Cooper's podcast. We hope you found inspiration and guidance in today's audio. Remember the journey of faith. Thank you about our ministry. Please find us on pastorbencoopercouk. Please support us with prayer. Also, you can sow a financial seed into this ministry. You can also leave us a legacy to support and continue the work of this radio ministry. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with others who might benefit. Until next time, stay blessed.
