#CST - Forgiveness - (#CST55)

Forgiveness — The Power to Let Go

Hosts: Reverend Ben Cooper & Simon Pinchbeck
Series: #ChristianStraightTalk
Scripture Focus: Ephesians 4:32 (NIV)

“Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” — Ephesians 4:32

Welcome to this powerful episode of #ChristianStraightTalk with your hosts Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck. Today, we dive into a topic that affects every believer at some point: Forgiveness.

Let’s be honest—forgiveness is hard. It challenges our emotions, it confronts our pain, and it calls us to release what we often feel justified to hold on to. But the Scriptures don’t offer it as a suggestion—they present it as a command, a divine standard of Christian living rooted in the love and sacrifice of Christ.

In this raw and honest episode, Ben and Simon explore the depth and difficulty of forgiveness from both a biblical perspective and personal life experience. With real talk and spiritual insight, they open up about what it means to let go of offense, heal from past wounds, and live in freedom by walking in true forgiveness.

The episode anchors in Ephesians 4:32, a verse that not only calls us to kindness and compassion, but also reminds us of the forgiveness we have received through Christ. Ben reflects on the grace of God as the foundation for our ability to forgive others, while Simon unpacks how holding on to unforgiveness can spiritually hinder us and poison our purpose.

They don’t shy away from the realities—trauma, betrayal, and injustice—but instead, they shine the light of Scripture on these tough areas and remind us that through Christ, it is possible to forgive even the deepest hurts. Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting or excusing what’s been done. It means choosing obedience, healing, and freedom.

This episode is not only for those wrestling with bitterness or pain—it's for everyone who wants to grow in grace and maturity. Forgiveness is one of the most radical and life-giving acts a believer can walk in. It’s also one of the most misunderstood.

By the end of this episode, you’ll walk away with:

• A clearer biblical understanding of forgiveness
• Practical ways to start the journey of letting go
• Encouragement to trust God with your healing
• Strength to break the chains of the past

So wherever you are today—driving, walking, or sitting with your Bible—take a deep breath and join us. It’s time to let go and live free. The Bible 

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Transcript

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:15

God bless we are here it is # Christian straight talk. We are back. We've had a couple of weeks away from the mic but we are back. It is Simon and it is myself as we are just gathering across the mics here. # Christian straight up wherever you are across the world today we pray that the fire of God will be on you. Like never before we are living in really good times, but good times and hard times, times of stretching times of insurance times of crying times of joy, but we are here # Christian Straight Talk. Simon is back with us. Simon it's so good to have you back with us today.

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:46

Yeah, it's good to be back. Ben, it's a great couple of weeks in, in the states and if you live in out there in the States, and you know, it's a wonderful country, welcome. I love being able to ask first time been over there for a few years. And it's it was great to be to be able to hear again, but it's good to be back and and you know what, I felt it. I felt it in the States. I feel it here even more Ben but we're gonna spiritual battle.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:15

We're in a big battle, an enormous battle

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:17

our life biggest battle since the crossing where at the moment with a surplus coming down a tube size. It's fierce, isn't it? It's really relentless. And it's, it gets worse every day than it went somewhere to stuff and you think, Lord,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:34

surely, Jesus, it can't get anywhere. What is going on? And why you are why all things have been happening here and there and everything. And you know, what, if we don't keep sharp in the Lord, if we don't keep on that word in that word, you know, you could easily be taken out with a missile from the enemy with an arrow. Easy. Oh,

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:54

absolutely. Absolutely. Ben, you know, when I was looking at that scripture this morning, and it's not what we're going to discuss today, but looking at scripture this morning, it says Romans 837 pin that says, We are more than conquerors who loan on a debt. So we got victory with Jesus. Amen. If we if we go away from Jesus, and we're in trouble anyway, we got to stick close by him. And I think right now as you quite rightly said, We got to stick closer to him than Yeah, than we've ever stuck to him because the closer we stick to him, the further away the enemy enemy is, and he don't he can't get to us. You can't get here but if we step out, it's like it's like being under an umbrella in a pouring rain and, and being dry and all of a sudden stepping out and getting wet. So so wet for it's as it's as black and white. Is that vent. Do you think I 100%

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:50

agree with you? It really is raining, isn't it? There it is raining like we've never seen before the enemy is coming in like a flood. Christ lifts up the standard and keep under the umbrella with the Lord Jesus Christ. Psalm 91. Psalm 91, you know, keep in the shelter of the Most High, we got to keep under the shelter of the living Word of God. But you know what this nation is like just wings? Yeah, no is the nation education, church, religion, workplace issues, marital issues, therefore,

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:20

going on in a church, but in Oh, goodness, in the Anglican Church in

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:25

enormous what's going on in the church, so this is critical for me and Simon for every one day, we've got to keep in the Word of God, we've got to keep reading. We've got to keep listening. We've got to keep moving. And you can't afford to stand still Kenya, you've got to keep on your toes.

Simon Pinchbeck: 3:41

Listen, you got to take responsibility. You've really got to take responsibility for your own salvation. That's the truth and work out your own salvation in fear and trembling. That's what he says. Because you will have local churches, so big churches or wherever they are all around all around, not just this nation, but there will pray for revival.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:02

It ain't coming.

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:05

Lord, send the rain of your own revival down.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:11

ain't happening, but we are going for what we

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:14

have got to take responsibility. And if you're listening to this, you've got to take responsibility for your own revival. Yeah, it starts with it starts with it. And it starts with that spin. That's the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:25

real revival. And when you look at the persecuted church, and it 360 million displaced Christians that are being persecuted, that are being killed, maimed, all that stuff going on, and they are fierce for Jesus Christ, that is revival, isn't it? Because you're running for your life. You're running a proper fight. But when you look at Christianity within the persecuted church, they're running for their lives. And that's what happened to the The disciples didn't know there was always running for their lives. They wasn't sitting back in their office, you know, getting a spur recce and working out revival moves and we've got a tent me and we've got this and we got that. They was moving from city to city town to town, there was ducking and diving, they was moving and they was continuously running for their lives. That is where we should be. But the church is so comfortable.

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:17

Well, the problem is, it's too good for too long. And they've just sat back and let all this stuff go on. And now they are absolutely Toothless to do anything about it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:34

Yeah, they are. It's really we are in a real critical situation gone away

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:38

from the word they've not they've they've not got strength in the Word of God. They've gone away from Jesus. They've gone up they still won't. All this stuff that's coming out as a brace the world really that's yeah. And they've got no strength to fight it. And so don't don't don't just want to sit around and put nice flowers sewn on in the journalists than ever. But no, we're at a critical stage where we got to stand out.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:05

We're we're at the we're at the we're at the I think we're beyond the battle line. I

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:09

think beyond about law. We'll be on the front.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:12

I think we're in the arena with Goliath

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:14

in the arena. Exactly. And Joshua said it didn't age. This is a guy who was a warrior for the Lord. It seen amazing victories. And he got on all at Shechem between the two mountains and he said to the old Israelite nation, choose you this day who you gonna serve? And I think we have to we got my decision, Ben choose this. Because you can't sit on the fence anymore.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:44

Not you can't you can't stand the fence is all for Jesus a fence Danny, he owns the fence and his splinters

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:49

in your back. If you stand up,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:53

stand up for Jesus. You in the world. I'll tell you what, this is the this is the time for the arena. And the church is like the Israelites when they were King Saul running back up as soon as the enemy started making the noise in the morning. The church was retreating. The Israelites were retreating. The David went, I'm gonna have this. I'm gonna have it. Isn't it interesting? You get 1000s of people looking but only one or two that will go in 1000s of churchgoers, 1000s of them mass amount of churchgoers. But how small is the real discipleship within that and go? Do you know what? I've got to go down to the battle line?

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:34

I've got to have a guide for Jesus. Whoever go and, and yeah, it's a challenge. And but it's the biggest and it's the biggest challenge you'll ever make in your life. And but it's exciting. And if you want to want to challenge if you want to excitement, you look no further than Jesus. Because yeah, man, that's the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:55

Jesus or take you to places where you never thought possible or not as he takes you to them places it will put you it will put you in the arena. It will put you in that position. Because when you look at David David wasn't looking for anything he was on a savage run, is that just don't just go and check on the boys where you made sure they were right. Do you know what we live our lives we're doing what we're doing. And so often we're We're on a journey that we think we're going to drop something off do something live in life, and then suddenly we find ourselves in a battle that actually don't belong to us. That battle didn't belong to David. So sometimes there comes a point in your life, then it where you find yourself in a situation and it's over. Now do or die. You can't you can't retreat. You can't retreat. He didn't organize that battle Diddy he was just doing something very different. Going to see his brothers on a journey of his days life shepherd in going up there doing an errand for his dad suddenly finds himself in a position. Hang on a minute added archaea? How many of us find that Simon?

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:59

I think you have a lot, right? You're right. And, and then you just if you get your head down and get stuck in. When it's all over and you got victory, you think, how did that happen? Because I couldn't do it by myself. We estimate a lot. And we will do a podcast on this very shortly. But I believe our first port of call is Jesus. But you know, we need a couple of big scrapes. We have a couple of strong Christian 100% people around you and we can do something like what we call locking shields. We load shields together, like we used to do in a place for us and you then you're stronger and together, locked together and the enemy can't get in. If if you mate or your friend falls down. You support him. You're locked in. You're locked in. You're locked in. And then you can go and we had snatch squads that used to go in and snatch the prison. I suppose we can do that snatch people from our flying Honda flights. And it's what you do in our space. Wherever You Are we snatching people from the flames and it just has to be a daily walk a daily thing that we do so, wake up in the morning and say, Lord, I'm ready.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:20

I'm ready. I'm ready for it. You know, I've never realized that following Jesus Christ will take you to many battles, but the battle belongs to the Lord. But you've got to step up to the plate every year you got to step up to the arena for Jesus, you can't sit in the office. You can't hide behind your your work as a clergy. You can't hide behind the ministerial work because that's tucking yourself away. You know, frontline staff, you won't have time for admin, you won't have time for planning because you'll be thrown into the arena with Goliath and Goliath ain't worried if you're if you've got a risk assessment that sort out. The enemy ain't worried about none of that. But how many people are tied up in church bureaucracy and ministry, and are missing the frontline activity? You know, this is where we've gone wrong in church and ministry. On the front line, you ain't got time to breathe it's almost exhausting.

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:11

Yeah, it's because it's relentless and it's relentless now and that's that's the thing and honestly thing you know, if you don't, if you choose not to be on the front, on the front line can mean all sorts of things he can it can mean to just been in a mighty prayer warrior. Yes, keeping in prayers praying and crying. Because the saints need your prayers to people or it can mean going out. It can mean just just telling someone that God loves them. The frontline labor more than that,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:45

I think we've got to be frontline believer that we it's not about sitting at the desk anymore is getting out. It's been on the on the coalface has been on the cutting edge of life.

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:57

That's the thing. When we're talking about revival, this is the revival you if you're listening to this, you are the revival because Mother Teresa said should tell Jesus to everybody and start with the person next to you. So yeah, you know, in, in your work in your workplace, wherever you wherever you go in a coffee shop on a golf course. Now,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:25

we ain't gonna golf clubs are used for smashing up the pub. You know, you following Jesus, when you really follow Jesus, He will take you to the battle line, it will take you beyond and it will take you as Simon said, you can't go in your own strength now you've know that you've got to have Jesus with you. Because you'll be wiped out

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:50

if you if you if you rock out in thinking your your your dogs in in your own flesh

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:58

like isn't that interesting? What he's just saying there because you got to know so so many ministries get eaten alive tonight because they are not really of the Lord you got to make sure what you're called to you know what you're called to. And when you go into that area, you got to be prepared weather whatever that is. Because the enemy you know the the fiery darts of the enemy that dogs the the foxes, all that sort of stuff. You've got to have that shield you got that fire around you. And when you go in you when you go on the front line with Goliath or you got to know Jesus, you got to know Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:36

Well, you know look at our friends Saul, you know, yeah, do the mighty warrior. mazing battle leader. But when he tried to do it in the flesh,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:48

it all went wrong.

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:50

seriously wrong. Down the pan didn't it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:53

Isn't it interesting as well that you've mentioned in Sol Sol got really jealous then he got really jealous of David. We Yeah, when jealousy comes in. What else does it bring? unforgiveness, unforgiveness, anger, slander, rage, brawlin slander, the scriptures are really really clear of it. So being a believer ain't fluffy. Is it going to church on a Sunday and you know walking in with everything in the bag wonderful you know you walk into church almost like you've had the almost your backside ripped out of your weight because you've been on the front line of life and people Christians at work what's it like for the Christians at work now that are on the front line in the forces in the military? Where at what I shouldn't really say any work really, you know, in an ivory tower that is that that is a battle. Being a Christian in a workplace so you're gonna have you're gonna have your, your shield of faith bruised. You're gonna have your helmet of salvation crack with a hammer and you're you're gonna have the belt of truth almost trying to be ripped off. You're gonna have the sword of the Spirit almost trying to be blunt. it, you're going to have people jumping up and down on your toes. And if you are a Christian in a workplace situation in a very awkward time of your life, hold on, hold on to the living Word of God, because we're with you. We're right on the battle line, we know what it's like to be on the frontline, hold on to Jesus Christ, you know, and that opens up the conversation, then it for what some has brought to the table today. That word that words quite frightening, and forgiveness

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:28

is huge. Forgiveness is huge. It's very easy to say, and it's very easy for Christians to say, you know, you must forgive until it was too you know, you've got to forgive somebody.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:39

Because when you're on the battle line, and someone's coming against you, you got to be careful that you don't go in your flesh and you become angry, and malice and all that stuff. And then something happens and the enemies at you and someone's around you and and then bitterness drops in and jealousy and you become unforgiving?

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:58

Well, me. Yeah, that's right. And Mandela said to me about, about bitterness and chicken, you said as well, but he said, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. Yeah, there's an interesting quote in it, because that unforgiveness, delete you away or keep you in a prison, and the other person is walking around, don't really, you know, nothing's happening. So you got to get rid of we have to get rid of any unforgiveness and sometimes, Bennett, you know, this stuff that had gone on in our lives in the past that that we've buried that, that has shaped our future, but we don't know. Yeah, and the only person to get that is the Holy Spirit. They don't, you can go to, um, teen, trick scientist or trick cyclists or whatever you want to call up. But the Holy Spirit is the one who brings the Holy Spirit and it'll bring that out. And but we are called to forgive. You know, Jesus said, you know, 70 times seven, Denise, you know, and, and

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:59

how do we do it, though? Well, what is this Jesus?

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:03

And the deal is in the Lord's Prayer says, Forgive us our trespasses. And we make that statement, don't we, as we forgive our trespass, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:11

how many times do we pray? Like, Father, give us our trespasses,

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:16

but I want to hang on a bit, but just leave me to our flesh. Ben loves unforgiveness, and it loves sitting down having a pity party with ourselves and going, did he do that? Did he say that? What

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:30

did what are they up to, I'm gonna go around there and wring their neck.

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:34

And the thing is, and that's bad enough if it happens to you, but if it happens to a member of your family, if it's close to home, and something happens to one of those members of your family and the Old Testament and the family is looking at you,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:51

we're gonna do what you got to do that. We're gonna do, Mom, we're gonna do what you're gonna do. And you're the pastor, you're the leader, you're going into ministry or going out to the Word of God. The baseball bat.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:04

Yeah, seriously, it's a true, but that God cannot. Our heavenly Father cannot move on with us if we're hanging out or forgiving.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:13

I wonder if that's the biggest thing within the world of the church. Jealousy and unforgiveness. I think they both go together pretty well, don't they?

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:20

Yeah, definitely. They both

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:22

spike one to one another. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And in Ephesians, chapter four, you know, 31 or 32. It says, Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, brawling, slander, along with all this from all malice. Then it says verse 32, Ephesians chapter four, be kind and compassionate to one another. Forgive each other. Just as Christ. God forgave you, God help me with what you've just been saying. bitterness and anger, rage, brawling, slander, malice, get rid of it all.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:58

Get rid of it, and get rid of it. And and listen, there's discernment amongst this. We were just gonna go over a couple of topics and we will go deeper another stage, but but there's discernment, because and if even if a person's died, and you still aren't hanging, you still have to forgive them. Just because they're dark. You couldn't escape the fact that no it doesn't. And actually, it could make it worse. Couldn't make it worse. Yeah, because I never gotten

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:30

to I'm never gonna say them loving words.

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:34

In your in your, in your spirit. You can still do it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:38

I think it's the silent killer in it. unforgiveness and jealousy. I think them to really eat us like a bad disease. It eats away it eats away. And then you jump into an argument with someone and then someone in your family or your business and go out Yeah. Do you remember what you've done? I've never forgiven you for that. Yeah. And Even popped up. And it's been been buried for years

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:03

for years. Well, it's interesting point because a thing that happened in my life. I was a young Christian and I was watching Joyce Marla time I quite liked it because she's Yeah. And I was watching it early in the morning is watching and she said, You can't move on. The Lord can't move on with you. There's unforgiveness in your life. So I think much of that. That's a nice word. But I came in later that day, that same day, and switch the telly on again. And there was Joyce Meyer, and she was saying exactly the same thing. Wow. And I thought, Oh, she's talking to me. So over the next few days, I examined Courtney Ellison who spoke to the Holy Spirit and realized that there was stuff that went on when I was a very young with my stepdad that he dealt with. And so I didn't have discernment, as you know, really, I should have just forgiven him. Yeah, in my heart and moved on. Yeah. But, you know, and here's the thing, and many people will resonate with this, I wanted to tell him that I was gonna forgive him

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:04

a face to face

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:07

or you down, and I'm gonna tell you, because it's all about my soul. So I went out there, and I got hold of him. And I said, You did this to me. And then he was a bit shocked. Yeah, because I'll make them on I we've we've prank bounce back. And then I said, But I forgive you. And I love you. And so he was a bit shocked. And we left it at that. But six months later, he was diagnosed with leukemia, and there's no coming back from Wow, disease. And I went up, went up, saw him, he was a wreck. And, and the, lead him in in the in the center's prayer, if you like, and the I believe he gave his life to life. And unbelievably, when he died, 18 months later, he had that opportunity. And I believe he knew the Lord. So what I'm the point I'm making out of that is, without that forgiveness, he wouldn't want to reach that situation

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:11

is a normal word in it. It's a, it's painful to do as well.

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:16

And the next point is this is that we can't forgive in the flesh when he can't,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:21

because it, we can say, I'll forgive you. But that's lip service in it, it's got to come from the inward May, the emery May through the power of the Holy flesh won't

Simon Pinchbeck: 22:32

let you forgive because it loves that. Forgiveness done

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:36

it. And it can always it could always not sign that the the unforgiveness. So let's say we've forgiven this person. And we've actually done that in the Spirit. But then your mind later on your mind can play tricks with you. So you will always have this battle. Always have a battle, because those less sure want to take you back. So I forgive. But does my head forget? Because it's your heart that forgives?

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:00

Well, we'll come on and that see the spirit. The flesh wants, doesn't never wants to know the Spirit as He asked to be and must pay back the spirit as you cannot. And a great story of that. Corrie 10, boom, you know that? Oh, good. I do so rely on woman get taken to the gas chambers in the house, which she went on. And she was talking about forgiveness. And the story, as I understand it goes, she was she was at a meeting she was talking about forgiveness. And at the end of the meeting, a guy walked towards her and she recognized him as a camp guard who had taken her family to death chapters and he locked it down. He said there was forgiveness for me to Fraulein and she said she just froze coldness and he put his hand down and in the flesh she smashed him or slapped him but in the spirit around went out and she said yes so in the spirit has to be within the spirit and there has

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:06

to be has to be in the word in Jesus in the in the Bible, but it's easy to say this, isn't it? Yeah, it when it comes to the challenge when it comes to facing that that person come into really dealing with it? It will your ain't enough strength to do it. There ain't enough physical strength to do and as you say, the thing

Simon Pinchbeck: 24:25

is you can't do it alone. You and do that over and over. define you. Yeah, you know, we let shapes hear many stories of, of tragedies that have gone on and people have not moved on from the tragedy. They're still living in the history. And then and I remember to there was two young young girls who died horrifically in this country together and they know caught a perpetrator and he's doing life in prison. But one of the fathers was a Christian and the other wasn't. And the difference in the two demeanors? Yes, sometime later, you know, obviously, wow, it found a way to forgive, he'd found a way to move on and he could see it, but the other fella was eaten eaten away. And I understand I understand that I understand I understand that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:25

If so, it's easy to preach it, it's easy to talk about it. But when it comes down to the individual to go, I've got to do this. You can it can take hours, it can take weeks, it can take years. It can be a journey that can almost take a fair part of your Christian life because it can only be done with Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:46

It can only it can only be damaged because in the in the flesh. Sometimes we will look at it as a weakness. Don't wait.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:54

Yeah. And it's payback. And it's, I'll get you back

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:58

and what what what is that phrase, revenge is a dish best served cold and also people sit on it, sit on it, they have an opportunity. Yeah. To to go out and do

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:14

so this unforgiveness festers, done it, it eats, it chews away, it robs you of life. It robs you of the journey. It robs you of blessing. You know, when Christ was on the cross, and He said, Father, forgive them for they know what they do. How in the world. You know, I think that there are many people that have really had brutal things done to them. And even again, when you look at the persecuted church, you look at the persecuted church and look at that. How do these people forgive when they watch their husband, who was the pastor completely decapitated, cut to pieces, people being raped and all that stuff. And you hear these stories of these, these women and these men again, we actually forgive but you can see the forgiveness on their face, you can see their light is shining. You can see that and you think how can you? How have you managed to do that? I think God gives you strength when you are in that position. Because when you think about it, and you try and put yourself in it, you can't get to that place you can't

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:23

get to that place if you're right I think if you've made that decision in your heart in you know, you need to forgive I think the Lord will give you the strength and it gives you the words

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:34

satisfy for actions isn't it focus

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:36

on actions and the third point Ben is how do we how do we keep them thoughts from coming back and that's in a mind big thing because battlefield of the mind the thing is, you know, you you take an axe to a tree and one chop ain't gonna knock it down is it you know, you might forgive one time, but it's the thoughts will be coming back. So we have to keep getting given it over giving it over to we get victory in the area but we are not only are we called to forgive, we're called to pray for the person and Bless them.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:11

Bless thy enemy. If someone slaps you give them the other cheek. That's what Jesus said someone wants to rub your coat, give him your shirt, give him your clothes, take your boots off he said

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:21

you know you're taught it's an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but I'm telling you, you know, I have a cheek and pray for your enemy you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:29

that is like that is a spirit that is only a way of the Spirit of the Living God you know when someone comes to rob you take your coat when someone comes to beat you you know our and pray pray for those that persecute you. Bless those

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:44

harm you and it's not brushed on Lord you know it's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:48

as you're standing over punching them in them in the name in the name and I'm doing it all in one Corinthians only in love Jesus one Corinthians praising

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:03

not the demon out of it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:05

Doing the bene punching him in the stomach. We

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:09

have a call and believe me you know I've had an especially when you when the things go on and it's your Christian brother or sisters. That's too hard to take isn't it? And if you're listening this out there many of you will Yeah. And and the thing is what I've seen if that when that's happened to me happens it's happened to me many times because if you stand as we were saying earlier and you make a mark in the sand you find even in the Christian world you get a few people that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:46

a lot you'll find there be look at so so turn Why did so turn on David he turned because of jealousy. You know, I think the hardest thing for a Christian to do, God anoints and God a point and God call God strengthens. I think the biggest issue that we carry is when God blesses you. And God is leading you into something and the arena of people around you start looking at you, I think many people get jealous of hang on a minute. They're, they're moving on in a load, but that person don't realize they're moving on. And Lord, it's just that you're walking in your colon, and then people around, you're getting jealous, frustrated with you that causes arguments. You know, it's not easy, walking in the anointing of the Lord and being and having the Father bless you, when you've got people around you that aren't religious, and almost backbiting and are watching every watch and every moment waiting for you to vote and,

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:47

and wanting to, you know, not wanting you to succeed in what you're doing. But what they don't realize is that is that while they're looking at you, they're ignoring what the Lord's got for them. And it's different for everybody. That's the truth. So it's like, we've said it before, but it's like that, you know, it's like, when I was out jogging at time, and and there was a guy up and I thought I could catch him up. I thought this incredible. Catch him up, you know, someone actually slower than me. So, you know, I went for it, put on the jet burners and creeped up behind him and, and I were talking, and then when I thought, yeah, I was talking with them. I looked and I thought, Where am I for Miss returning, returning, returning back then I've run too far. And that's what can happen if you are running in the flesh at someone else and watching what led because they're on a different journey or, you know, so what we have to do we have to bless him. Yeah, and we have to say bless you and but and I'm sure you've done it but the freedom in the blessing for you as it definitely is amazing.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:00

That is the key isn't it? Father bless this person. Lord, this situation helped me Father, you know, this, this unforgiveness or forgiveness? Is it an enormous subject It's massive.

Simon Pinchbeck: 32:13

We can't do justice in the in the time that we've got but we can bring out some points but that that blessing you know, not just forgive but bless and pray for them and yeah, and and it releases that really releases you and it releases them. Yeah, so the Lord the Lord then can deal with them definitely on their issues. Yeah. And we offer it to them and what and then the things they do we might see him we might notice them but they don't they're not down here as hard as they would have done.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:50

So the so the understanding of all this stuff is I've got to keep walking with Jesus. I just got to keep walking in the woods I keep going to get keep close with Jesus. It's not an easy path is it following Christ is an enduring path. It's a it's a blessed path it's an anointed path is the fulfilling path. But on that way we meet some characters don't we? Well, we have got to bless them Bless them Lord touched their heart Lord help me you know I think it starts within doesn't it it starts within me before anything else starts within within me Lord help me guide me lead me strength for me. Helped me to forgive helped me not just to forgive but Lord I'm gonna leave it and across I've got leave this at the cross. Because I'm waking up with it. It's sitting in the back of my mind I don't even I don't even think about it but I know it's there it's sitting back

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:43

and what happens benefit if we don't do that? We come in we become very self focused. Yeah, and that's not good is it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:52

No focused on Jesus focus

Simon Pinchbeck: 33:56

while was self focused, we're never gonna be happy we're never gonna be at peace so and another thing this last point we'll make Ben is that is that we have to forgive you know people that have done stuff to us but we also have to forgive ourselves which is huge lesson massive money people that will Yeah, we'll say well, what does that actually mean? What do you mean what do you mean by the way I understand it is that is that if there's unforgiveness and stuff going on then then we haven't we feel guilt we yeah, we feel guilty that way. And that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:34

guilt is another eater. It's it's another pair of teeth eating us inside and it

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:39

and barley, Paul saying Romans, he said there's no condemnation, but I was in Christ. I was like, what, but But hang on a minute, lay down the flesh. I want you to hear that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:48

reflections. I want to talk about that one. You know, guilt, you know, guilt is another part of it, isn't it guilt, guilt, shame, shame and all that and speaking out and being honest and being open because we you're honest and you're open, that opens up another conversation that it's like what happened

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:05

is you're forgiving the Front party right but the enemy will come around at bat and go. Yeah, did you? What what sort of Christian Are you? Did you think that about him? Did you? Did you think you fought what you wanted burning coals to come down and he said

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:24

the battle belongs to the Lord. Come on. No. Where are you stopping

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:28

they go in there we stop. And we start wearing to remember Ben, we spoke about a backpack of shame and guilt. Yeah, so we stopped putting it all in that backpack?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:37

Yes, we do. It's loaded. The backpack is loaded and weighed down. You know, it's it's, it's hindering our walk and what did Jesus say? Come to me all of you to where I got it. Come on, just hand it over them. 28 said come to me come to me come to me only for the weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest.

Simon Pinchbeck: 35:57

And you that was a great analogy. Because what tell us what you said again, what do you say what what does he do when we walked to him and say take this rucksack, what

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:07

cuts him off at the shoulders with the holy scissors and suddenly you become lighter. Wow. So you become lighter. When you come to the cross. Suitcase rucksack low fully loaded to the back door you can't even do the zip Hopper the rucksack and it is so heavy. You got bricks in it of yesterday. How much history have we got in our rucksack karate, how much history have we got in a suitcase of life? Bring it all to the cross you know it's like right okay. Jesus says bring it all and leave it that that is the that is the key leave it at the Cross

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:43

leave it I'll take care

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:45

and I'll cut that Laura Connie routes. Some people don't even want to take the rucksack off because there's part of them that said it shaped him

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:54

and it shaped him and so they're walking around Yeah, shirt or jacket on with this rucksack underneath it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:01

looking like Quasimodo looking like Yeah, exactly looking like the back of Notre Dom, they got this stuff that is hidden under their clothing. Yeah. And it's, it's defining them. It's defining them and it's shaping them when rather than the Bible says, The Prophet went down to the Masters House and he watched the master shaping the clay. He will he will take the rucksack off he will take the guilt. He will take the shame he will take the jealousy the bitterness, the unforgiveness, II would deal with everything. But it ain't gonna happen until I come to him. Because that's the key point and it come to me. It's you can't take the rucksack off.

Simon Pinchbeck: 37:37

It's exactly you know, we've, I love when we when we when Jesus walks up to the beggars, he walks up to the blind people, he walks up to all these people. And he says one the first question he asked them, What do you want

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:52

me to do for you? What do you want?

Simon Pinchbeck: 37:56

Because the blindness the lameness as shaders find them and shaped them. And it's exactly the same, it was the same Jesus saying, if you're out there, and you're living in shame and guilt, and you're just saying to you, what you're gonna do for

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:12

you, I want to be free Jesus, I want to be

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:14

married to me give it to me not, don't can cling on to it, because that is gonna, you're gonna die with that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:22

I think also, when we start submitting all this stuff, it feels like that we drop in lower, when actually, it's coming out, it's coming out. If we keep it in, it keeps us hunched over. But as soon as we start talking about when to start dealing with the Lord, it can feel like we're taking a bit of a battering, and it can feel like it's rocking us. But we got we got to let Christ we got to, we got to bring it to the cross, we've got to speak to him. And hand the rucksack of life over you know, it's like having a padlock and a chain around you and we haven't got the key. We haven't got the key. We can't take the shack we can't take the shackles off. We're like the prisoners with the shackle on the bowl and the chain. You can't undo that. You don't have the key for that. And there is only one person

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:08

that has the key Oh, you can't do it by yourself. Don't even try

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:11

and the church can't do it. And pastors can't do it. Ministers can't do it. The amount of prayer from someone else ain't gonna do it. Because it's me.

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:21

And Jesus is asking that question is not asking your mate. He's not asking you. Actually there is not asking your boss at work. He's asking you what do you want me to do? What do you want? Ben?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:32

What do you want? Simon? What

Simon Pinchbeck: 39:33

do you want? Well knows the answer. And he's just slowing. He's just thinking, say you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:37

just say I want freedom. I think that the biggest prayer you could ever pray, Lord, I need freedom from everything. Everything guilt, shame. unforgiveness. I need freedom. Give me freedom. And that is a journey on its own. suddenly starting to explore the word freedom because your walk Like that prisoner, your your continue to walk back while you're shackled up, even when they're gone. Yeah, because you've been entrenched in a certain way you've lived your life and then suddenly, you'll be out, stand up and walk tall, where you've been struggling, you've been punched over, you've been in inward focused and you've been turned down, you know, this is a normal subject, we've, we've run out of gas, we've run out of electric here. But this is a conversation that just keeps

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:26

loading. I mean, if we carry on, we'll just carry on. And I mean, all that stuff will, we will revisit again, because there's so much understanding of, of what it means to be free and how to get free. And how to have peace.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:45

Goodness, that is the word do you want peace. And as

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:48

Jesus said, in the say, you know, I will give you peace, not as the world knows peace, but I will give you an everlasting peace. And it's only a piece you can find in Jesus. And if there's anything again, what was saying, We're in all of this is that Jesus and our Heavenly Father looks at you as an individual. Yeah. And, and wants you as individual to walk in through them and a follow Jesus and to go to the fall. I love it. And if there's anything stopping that anything in the way, then Jesus says, Just give it to me. You know, I'll get rid of that stuff. So you can walk in through them. You can walk in forgiveness. And that's the beginning. Yeah, you can you can be the man or woman that made you happy.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:36

Wow, amazing stuff, brother or sister, wherever you are, at this moment in time. Feels like we've had to really just end that in an unusual way. But it's a conversation that will never come to a full stop. I'm afraid to say you've been listening to Simon and myself here.#Christian straight talk. We hope you are well you never give up. We're all on this journey. We're all on this journey. have helped me Jesus helped me Lord, come to the cross of Calvary. God bless you in the world of Buzzsprout, Spotify, I Heart Radio, all those across the world. We thank you so much for sharing and downloading all these podcasts. We are really blessed. And Simon one last word from you, my friend.

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:18

Just quite simply bring it to the cross. Really? Bring it to the cross, drop it and walk in freedom and forgiveness with Jesus. Amen. And as of course, # Christian straight talk.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:33

That's it. God bless every one of you. Catch you soon. Take care. God bless