Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Reverend Ben Coopers podcast, offers an inviting space for listeners to explore Christianity and spiritual growth with wisdom, humor, and a deep commitment to biblical truth. Through Rev. Ben's engaging conversations with guests, the podcast not only explores the timeless wisdom of the Bible but also tackles the pressing issues of life, faith, and hope in a way that is accessible, thought-provoking, and enriching. Whether you’re seeking spiritual nourishment, answers to life’s big questions, or simply a place to reflect on your faith, the Rev Ben podcast is a valuable resource on your journey.
In each episode, Rev. Ben guides listeners through profound theological reflections, personal stories, and practical insights drawn from the Bible and the broader Christian tradition.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
#CST - Different Spirits in our Churches (#CST7)
Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck take to the Mics for a general discussion, #Christian Straight Talk, straight out of the barrel of truth.
This weeks discussion is Different Spirits in our Churches.
Listen on Apple Music, Amazon Music, I Heart Radio, Buzzsprout, Spotify, and multiple other Podcast platforms - you will find us under the title Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast.
https://www.pastorbencooper.co.uk/
Good morning, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us, wherever you are across the globe. Today you're joining us here at#Christian Straight Talk. Straight out the barrel of truth. We got Simon on the other side of the mic, we've got the coffee, we've got the biscuits, and more importantly, we've got the word of God, we thank you so much for sharing and just partaking in everything that we're doing through what God is leading us into #Christian straight talk, you can find us in many, many areas, but please just poke into the search engines #Christian straight talk. And you'll find us in many places, we've got a great subject, someone is bringing a great subject to the table. And I think it's so relevant for where we sit within the church within the West within Charismatic Movement, different spirits in our church. Good morning, Simon.
Simon Pinchbeck:Morning, Ben. It's great to be back across the mics with you and welcome to anyone who's out there who's listened to this anywhere you are in the world. It's very, it's just amazing. Don't you know, we just do that do these podcasts. But you know, we had it. It's been over? Well, over 50, nearly 100 downloads have just done that. Interesting. So it's, it's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Plus the
Reverend Ben Cooper:Plus, when you add it all together, and onto his second proof read, and it'd be out very, very, very when I say the other statistics come through is massive. It is absolutely enormous. It's crazy. So yeah, it's really important soon. Yeah. And it's on fear. So yeah, yeah, that's kind of cut that we thank everybody on the other side of these mics for sharing everything that goes on to make God bless you and strengthen you, wherever you are across the world. As Simon said, we're just blown away by everything that's happening here. The new books on its way out very, very soon. It's just the ink drying on the paper across all sorts of things. And it'll bless you if you when you get it, you know, seriously will bless you and set you free to be honest with you. But yeah, we've got a subject this morning have been about different spirits in our churches, you know, because we are an enemy, that way that we don't we don't wherever you are in the world, or is he in charge.
Simon Pinchbeck:But he's an imitator aint he ben.
Reverend Ben Cooper:thats the kiddie. He immitates, he's an actor. And he acts very well. And he's got many, many different dress styles that he wears.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, and nothing new under the sun is so ecclesiastics Yeah, he's awesome. He's about he's well and truly established in our churches. And, and it's true, Ben, you know, you people are not looking and and they're ignoring the Bible, aren't they? Because if you if you believe, I mean, crikey, if you got to be absolutely living on some sort of island to not realize that we are in the last days with everything that's going on, around us at the moment, everything that's going on with governments around the world on one world government gloves. So So if we look in them, as a first scripture, you know, our better to know better to look really and one Timothy four, and it says this, Ben, it says, The Great Apostasy, which is the great falling away in it. And I think we're in the middle of it now. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:I honestly believe as you believe that we're in it. We are seriously deep in that a great apostasy, the falling away. And you can see it but I've suddenly realized that is happening for many years that it isn't COVID That actually was actually triggered. It's been around for many years. But it's highlighted as in the lock down as highlighted where we sit as a nation. We're very politically, we're very financially driven. Everything is business orientated. And that reflects into the establishment, the church. And so we see the church is very business II very political, you know, as we say a lot is where are where are these preachers of the doctrines of where are where is the church?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, it's all I would apply spent, to be honest. If you're, you know, look, listen to this, but it's from one Timothy four, it says, Now, the spirit expressly says now this is the Holy Spirit expressly says that in the latter times, some will be depart from the faith which we're seeing happening, given here heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Yeah, yeah. It's no you can't be getting any clearer in that canyon. No, it was just a word of God. He's told me and what's happening.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And this is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit that was hovering over the surface of the deep as the Gospel of John speaks about the advocate, the Comforter, the Counselor, the Holy Spirit. In one Timothy chapter four, verse one says, The Spirit clearly says that in the latter day times, there will be many abandoning the faith and follow in deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Simon Pinchbeck:So, you know, we've got backed up with in John as well, you know, so
Reverend Ben Cooper:I find that interesting, it says, taught by taught by yeah, hope by demons. So where are they going to teach what they're going to be in the office of what we call the church, they're going to be behind pulpit, they're going to have Bibles open, they're going to have their own agenda in front of them. But when you really take that just one verse in it says the Spirit clearly says that in the last times, some will abandon the faith and follow the sieving spirits. So just the word alone their spirits means that there will be uncountable amount of deceptive spirits in the last days and things taught by that's really concerning.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, yeah, it is. So let's hope by taught by
Reverend Ben Cooper:not led by taught but actually, we could abandon our faith. Well, we could follow deceiving spirits, and then also following them being taught by but how do I get taught by a deceptive and unfamiliar spirit? What vehicle is he going to use is going to use the vehicle of a human being? Someone's going to go well prove it. Okay. Well, if you go to the New Testament, you will find very clearly that Christ was sitting around the Passover table, having having the mill the Last Supper, and everything's going there. And Judas Iscariot, the Bible says very clearly, that Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, and Christ said to him what you're about to do go and do quickly. So these spirits need a vehicle, didn't they? Of course, and the vehicle is
Simon Pinchbeck:the human being but and they're their one goal is to destroy completely imitate Whoa, imitate and the thing is, you know, if you you only got to be off a degree out
Reverend Ben Cooper:half a degree, isn't it? So right at the starting block
Simon Pinchbeck:if I if I'm sitting out from here Yeah. And I want to go back home to God's country Essex rule you got to be off a decree out
Reverend Ben Cooper:and you're lending on I ended up
Simon Pinchbeck:in the North Sea on the sea or something genomic one degree one, that's all you got to be and, and it says, you know, Timothy says this as well in to Timothy Paul says, this, three says, But know this, that in the last days, perilous times will come on, we're in that right now. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self control, brutal, despises of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God having a form of godliness, but denying its power. A form of Yeah, yeah. And so some from such people turn away. So the Bible clearly tells us what to do.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But humanity is attracted to power and control and manipulation. Humanity, isn't it there's something built in the mechanism of the flesh there site built in, in the human being, like, we love to see supernatural things, signs and wonders. And when you get signs and wonders, it doesn't always come from the cross of Calvary from Christ.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think you've got to you've got to be very discerning along these lines, very wise, and you've got to really do research and I'm afraid people don't do research. They believe something called a king's new suit or clothes don't lie, you know, so, you know, very true when a king was running around naked, but yeah, he got conned into believing he was wearing a marvelous suit of clothes and everyone nodded and said, What a marvelous suit. Except one little boy you said, no, no, let me hang on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You trying to fleece me? I ain't gonna wear what he's got.
Simon Pinchbeck:But that's what's happening. You know you so you get these great, they're great orators. They're great sort of manipulators. They're very charismatic. Yeah. And they'll be telling you one thing and if you don't know the truth, yeah, very easy to fall in line. Isn't it ben
Reverend Ben Cooper:very easy to come in line with fault because it's performing? It's performing well. It goes a little bit more than performing. Danette week goes into black magic and witchcraft. It goes into sorcery biblical reference some the sorcerer and also by the way mechanic yeah it's always there really is always there because isn't that interesting that he wanted to buy the Holy Spirit I want to buy that some money is always a is around bubbling around this money is what is bubbling around it.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's it's huge and you know been
Reverend Ben Cooper:magicians because when you look at magician magician is a sorcerer, you got black magic white magic. You've got all the stuff that goes along with with that occultic world. You've got all that. But
Simon Pinchbeck:we've seen what they do. They can manipulate healings, they can convince people that they're healed. Got regrowing, you know, yeah, your legs growing. Yeah, you know, all that sort of stuff. It's It's the old snake oil salesman trick. And you know, just is
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, transcend all meditation and you gotta be careful of so many words, haven't you got to be so careful of words?
Simon Pinchbeck:I see a lot you know, you, you know, you watch people and they might be on a telly or whatever. And yeah, I'll get up in the morning I do this yoga stuff. And really, yoga is just a way of stretching off your muscles and all that sort of thing. But you know, the danger with something like that is that you are then making your body out as an antenna to Gateway to Gateway to evil spirits. Who can come in so you you do these funny prepositions what they they're like, they're like, animal positions ain't nice.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got very animalistic Yeah, downward dog after I've done that I'll have a dog biscuit.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, you seem you seem to know so but you're all you're doing is making your body an antenna to say you know
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, seven they say that the body's got seven gateways dont they seven places that unfamiliar spirits can come in. But but but this is very, very important. When you when you carry Christ when you when you are a born again believer, there is no way on planet Earth No way. There is no way that when you are truly saved and blood washed and sanctified, your mind might be wayward and all that but there's no way that that Lucifer can take up residence in your being with Christ it that is impossible. So there's a movement out there isn't there that people keep saying I've got to be delivered I've got but you're delivered. Once you're saved, once you're redeemed once you are cleanse once
Simon Pinchbeck:if you're truly
Reverend Ben Cooper:if you are truly that that is the question, but we are living in a society where I've got to go to the latest preacher, the biggest auditorium, I've got to be delivered. I got to go for salvation again, backwards and forwards like a yo yo. But when you're saved, you're saved.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the thing is been people are not reading the Word of God. They are biblically illiterate. So what happens is that you believe a preacher or teacher and then look everyone, yeah, because we live in an instant society. Everyone's looking for instant. Yeah, looking when they tell me they're looking for an instant, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it was done it for them. It will do it. For
Simon Pinchbeck:The biggest, one of the biggest imitators out me. there at the moment, what we've seen, and I'm sure it's been around, or this thing has been around for months or years in Eastern mysticism, and Buddhism is called a Kundalini spirit. And you're quite right, the Kundalini Spirit works on the principle that there's seven gateways, chakras, I call them chakras and starts in your pelvis and works up your spine conceptual out the head. Yeah, yeah. Completely. Very, very. And, and the the idea is to get that spirit that's in your in your groin if you're not coming out, and it's called a serpent spirit. And that's very interesting, isn't it? It's the serpent and it comes out to get it to come out your head. Yes. Yeah. What happens when that happens? You feel euphoria? You feel shaken. You feel you get psychic visions, you're into mantra
Reverend Ben Cooper:because its spiritual
Simon Pinchbeck:round consciousness. Yeah. This is, you know, he's given it all on you, you know, you're emotional, emotionally charged up. And sometimes you will have a loss or loss of consciousness. Now we see this spin
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the charismatic, charismatic churches because it runs so close together. It's because because Lucifer because when you look at it, Lucifer is the center point of every satanic activity you'd bring everything back is he's the center and all the is different. The Kundalini spirit, you know, you've got the Jezebel ik spirit, you've got all this stuff, the mythological gods of the Greek worlds, all that sort of stuff all comes back to who comes back to Lucifer worshipping Satan is another snake. The snake is the centerpoint. Garden, where do we find a snake right at the very beginning of time, he was a serpent, a slippery, you know, cut in all that sort of stuff very smooth.
Simon Pinchbeck:But people are not getting this and they're still going along, then they're, they're calling. Yeah. The Kundalini awakening, as a touch of the Holy Spirit, that's what they're calling and one of the biggest places that do this or, or, or Bethel Church in California, and any church, you know, related to them.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There's a fine line isn't there? There's a fine line between a miracle of God and a miracle, a miracle and a move of satan because you will see signs on wonders, through magicians through wizards, through a cultic activity, especially in black magic and white magic, satanic satanic activity, rituals, blood sacrifices, they run very, very close. But what's really interesting is that you will find all what we're talking about in the Old Testament.
Simon Pinchbeck:You will Ben and what what is interesting and what you've just said, and just I'm just thinking about that now is that they really are quite strong on blood, donate. Blood
Reverend Ben Cooper:is always blood. Why is it blood because of the blood of the Lamb? Because blood sacrifice the run, there's such a there's a fag paper. There's a fine paper between the imitator because that's what the Kundalini spirit is, it's imitating so it's imitating walk cry. It's, it's the fault and Osama read out the Scripture. It's glaring, glaring us in the eyeballs. One Timothy chapter four verse one, the spirit. Now when you look at this, this is the Holy Spirit. The Spirit clearly says that in later times, some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. So the vehicle that demonic forces use are human beings. We see this very clearly in Scripture, we see the prophets of Baal we see the Ashleigh pole we see blood sacrifice we see that even the Israelites were told by God when you go into the land of Cana do not imitate and copy and worship their foreign gods. Of course we won't what happened. The plane landed speedos are out. They were all ages sacrifice child sacrifice. No one don't teach about that. But it's scripture. And it happens today as Simon said, blood
Simon Pinchbeck:blood. Yeah. And Ben you know what? This this Bethel type? Yeah church they come in on on a sense yeah, health and well being and healing and whatever the
Reverend Ben Cooper:wave the the feel good wave when actually it's not a feel good wave. It's a Kundalini it's a it's a very strong and it's a very powerful Luciferian spirit. That is it's huge is grabbing out and euphoria and feeling it feed in the flesh. And it makes you feel like you're godlike. You're a superhuman.
Simon Pinchbeck:Promise, Ben, that's the promise of this is to make you feel good, like godlike.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because what did Lucifer want anywhere in the wilderness? I will give you the keys. Well, hang on a minute, mate. Christ has created the heaven and earth and it's the shopfront of these demonic forces. That's what they got. They got balls the size of David Beckham aint they when they are so they front everything out and they are so in your face. And they sound so loud and it seems so powerful.
Simon Pinchbeck:And they want you to practice they want to tell you that they're on a higher plane than you Yeah, now they want to tell you that they're on a higher plane you
Reverend Ben Cooper:reach this than Jesus astral plane in big can totally transcendal meditation. That's yeah, I don't know every everything. What about when someone says I see you're sleeping the other night I came and visited Yeah, what are you talking about the doors were locked well, well either transcending body experience and I levitated and that came into your your bedroom hang on mate mate, you dont want to be in my bedroom at night.
Simon Pinchbeck:they weren't. We're not used to always doing a food run or something
Reverend Ben Cooper:delivering banana. But how true this though
Simon Pinchbeck:The truth Ben and I know actually someone who, who was going to this London School of supernatural
Reverend Ben Cooper:London School of Ministry coming straight out of California and
Simon Pinchbeck:straight out from Bethel, another offshoot, another offshoot, you as a healer, yeah, I can be a healer. And on
Reverend Ben Cooper:the other side of the cross alright
Simon Pinchbeck:this church leader I knew very well, it had something wrong with his heart, and this, and this guy said, Yeah, the other day I astroplaned into your body and then I came into your body and I massage your heart. Where is that in the Bible? What I, what I hang all that on, is when Philly was out talking to someone, and yeah, they hang everything, all that on that? Yeah. But you know, no, he didn't might you might? I don't know. And this same guy said, you know, we just fall about laughing. You know, and I think that is there's a lot that goes on in churches, you know, people just fall about laughing. That's not the Holy Spirit. Ben does not want the fruits of the Holy Spirit are in Galatians 522 20 freezes. The fruit of the Spirit is love. Joy, it's peace. Yes, praise God. It's long suffering. It's kindness. It's goodness, it's faithfulness, gentleness. And above all, it's self control.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is the one self
Simon Pinchbeck:control. And for you to fall about. Yeah, like a hyena. laughing Yeah. And, and when you, I just would ask anybody listening to this, please do your research. Look at this some great stuff out there on YouTube that has axioms and stuff. When they when you go on, and there's and they ask the Holy Spirit to come in the places like Bethel. People are forming around screaming barking night dogs running around like chickens. It's it's nothing to do with our Holy Spirit. But it's deceiving spirits is evil spirits, then, and they're all Yeah. And what happens is people get caught up in that and think, Oh, I better be parties. And so they just do it,
Reverend Ben Cooper:don't they? They Yeah, they do it do it. They just do it because we're herded the herd and we want to fit in, we want to fit in, you got to be careful of the Jezebel spirit as well. You know, King, Ahab, really, really powerful there. He was so so careful.
Simon Pinchbeck:So controlling spirit, Ben and really that that goes
Reverend Ben Cooper:that goes with it. I think that goes with it. Because when you get a demonic teacher, as the scripture says, they will be teaching demonic powers. There is an element of control, manipulation and control. So you get sucked in by so much because of the lights, the glitz, the glamour, and the control the way that they the way they speak the way that they present things and it becomes this, you become absorbed into this crazy world. The scripture says very clearly don't get caught in strange teachings. Exodus chapter 20, verse three, and you shall have no foreign gods before me. But as you look in Psalm 81, verse nine, it says, Let there be no strange god among you. So when he was talking about what he was talking about, it doesn't fit to what the Bible talks about the God of Israel. They're strange gods.
Simon Pinchbeck:Totally. And when you when we look at that Jezebel spirit been, yeah, it's the most dangerous manipulative spirit hates the Holy Spirit. Right? Yeah. And so it's violent. So we would call it a Jezebel spirit, but it can come on on men as well as women. Yeah, cold, right. Yeah. And it's, it's really prevalent in our churches. Because control from the pastor manipulation is huge. And what, what normally happens is, is that spirit wants to kind of destroy that church, and you'll see people far and away from the chest but the Spirit don't care. It just, it just doesn't care. And if you challenge it, you do it in the wrong way. The backlash from that will look to destroy you. So you've got to be very very careful when you when you're dealing with with
Reverend Ben Cooper:you got to be very careful. I got caught up once I got caught up in it and I'll tell you what, it is absolutely frightening. It is really, really occultic it is very dark. It is very powerful. It is very powerful. Now Jezebel, she was a wicked queen. She was married to King Ahab, and she had a reputation for murder, iniquity, sexual promiscuity from a surety can't even say it again. So excited about all this, you know, and she loves to be worshipped. And you'll find that in one kings, one Kings chapter 18, the Jezebel spirit, it's around, it's operating. And you've got to be really discerning. You've got to be very wise how to. So when you go into churches, is God in this ministry? Is this all about Jesus? Or is it all about the man?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, you've got Yes, yes. Soon as you walk
Reverend Ben Cooper:in any building that says, We are a church, as soon as you sit in, get yourself together, take your coat off, and you suddenly sit there within an instant, you should be able to hear someone from the congregation, the preacher or the worship, relating and speaking about Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If you go more than five minutes, and no one is talking about Jesus, you have to exit the building, like the building, because Jesus has left the building Jesus and the Jezebel experience and the Kundalini spirit and the familiar spirits and all them natural desires are
Simon Pinchbeck:Nisa, that place would have been literally says in what Paul says in two Corinthians 1113 to 14. He says, For search are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into a positive apostles of Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Transforming transformers is a form of transcend or meditation, there is a trance of, of, of meditation, and transcending and everything so you so what we see in the world today, that's got just different labels on it, but it comes from the word of God. So there is nothing new under the sun.
Simon Pinchbeck:And it says, this is a no wonder for Satan himself. Yeah, transforms himself into an angel of light. Think about that is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. Goodness
Reverend Ben Cooper:gracious, May, he's,
Simon Pinchbeck:he's there. He's in he's in don't think my friends if you're out there, don't think of, of the enemy as someone with a pitchfork and two horns. He's got. He's in there.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He's got a collar, we've got a Bible open, and hes standing behind a paulpit
Simon Pinchbeck:you know, drag queens, getting invited into church, to do talks, we, you know, we see the alphabet people, you know, being raised out, but it's yet
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Bible makes it very clear about idolatrous worship, serving and worshiping firing God, foreign gods. Lucifer turns himself and transcends himself and transports himself into an angel of light. Light is very, very powerful. In the Bible, light is a word that was spoken, and let there be light, and there was, and God separated, very interested in the light from darkness. And then also Christ says, I am the light of the world. So everything that Christ speaks about, and everything that Christ does, you've got Lucifer, trying to imitate, to copy and to present himself in that way. So he says, an angel of light. It talks about the spirit of move. I have the keys to the kingdom, how many preachers we hear that actually say that I can give you the keys, I can give you the keys because Christ says, I hold the keys to death into life. And the gate I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, it's interesting, because that whole Bethel thing is about keys. I'll give you a case about bringing the Kingdom of Heaven Heaven on Earth on Earth. Yeah, that's, that's what they say. And be very careful with these things. Because these are not denominations that have been set in stone for years. These are just been built up by a group of people who thought it's so it is a it's a cult that's exploded. It's a bit like Hillsong gotta say, Yeah, but before they ever do these, I've seen them where they do these grave soakings where they lay on graves of famous practitioners evangelist, you know, it's just nonsense that they do these Destiny card things. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know, that's very, that's very common around where we are at the moment. They have a certain thing that happens in the park and the Destiny cards come out. I was absolutely fascinated one year by by the churches together that the churches together that I was involved in, we set up a prayer tent, right, we set this prayer tent up on on the recreational field with a big, big weekend that was going on. And there was a tarot card reading tent for tents away and a good friend of mine, Donny, do you know what we didn't have one person come in the prayer tent all day long. But the tarot card tent was queuing and they was paying money. It was a site I've never seen before that you've got this prayer tent was empty. The Tarot card to people to women up there were reading and telling your fortune. They was queuing out this tent and was paying.
Simon Pinchbeck:Terracotta?
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, it was it was an occultic cult, it was a cultic. There was no Christianity.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what I say what did they say?
Reverend Ben Cooper:gotten the end of the queue? About you call blimey said don't
Simon Pinchbeck:buy any long playing record?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Good. But no, it showed me a lot that showed me a lot. Because it was what people want. I want to know what's my future. So, but I know I know what my future is in the Word of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:So these these people that started these, like, kill someone. Yeah, and they're not stupid. They got round a table barefoot and fought what people want people want a bit of the mystic people want to touch it out. And so they give it this theory and I throw in a bit a bit of the Bible and say it's, it's a it's Christian, it is not. And they what they do, they drag people in with with some very good music presence. I'm not saying the music, the words are great. But the bucyk the way it's produced is amazing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:How when you talk about music, what was Lucifer, he was the was a worship leader. So music is used, your music is used and the beat and the rhythm and the drive and the feeling the euphoria, you've only got a look at nightclubs, you only got a look at that sort of that sort of press that's out there. Music can get you into a transcendent position where you almost feel that that you become superhuman, then you then you lace that with other things. So if you've got music, the feelgood factor music and the rhythm and the beats are perfect. And then you put on top of that the Kundalini spirit and then you've got the Jezebel ik spirit. And then suddenly you bring in a different Jesus, and you'd start talking about a different Jesus all in the mix. All in the mix, you've got a powerful part, you've got a satanic strength, but let's remind ourselves, it's not as strong as Jesus Christ.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not the strongest No. So but it taps in to taps, because it's imitator, it's Christian rock'n'roll imitating and if you didn't any study on this, you know, they say if you've got similar words, and you repeat them 11 times Yeah, with the right because it comes a trance, you can becomes a trance, trance, you look at these people, these young people, sadly, are being drawn away through the transit, transcending music. That's right. And it's exactly the same so that the Bethel Church is called the New Apostolic Faith mu movement. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's another word apostolic.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, that's the word safe. And as the New Apostolic reformation so NAR they called and they're all merging together, so Hillsong and this moment, Hillsong. Really, what they do is they sit around, how can we make a church big? What do we have to sew into to make this church? Yeah. And Brian Houston, has said, you know, he's gone on record as saying you need more money. You know, if you don't need more money, where are you, you know, that's, it's called dish. It's little God's its health and wealth. It's all of these, all of these things aren't wrapped up. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:so the charismatic movement is an inter denominational Christian renewal movement that's come out of Los Angeles, it came out of Azusa Street in 1906. And that was a very powerful time, but that the imitators the imitators want to imitate what God was doing. Yeah. So suddenly, we become that one degree again, when you take out sound doctrine, when you take out doctrine when you take out the pure teaching of God's word, and when you listen to these speakers, and these these, these, these demonic forces, they sound so real because they are emit they are the greatest actors in the world. We will find the greatest actors not on Hollywood, but behind pulpits, on pulpits. Yeah. I mean greatly shows we won't find in the West End.
Simon Pinchbeck:There's a lot come out of the oral Oral Roberts University, back back in the states in the day. And yeah, they believe in this Gnosis thing, where the definition is the relinquishment of the divine attributes by Jesus in becoming human so what they're saying is, they're making Jesus small and
Reverend Ben Cooper:elevating yourself elevated man says a few churches called elevation. So the word elevation is a very dangerous
Simon Pinchbeck:elevation worship. They're they're all in that Hillsong Bethel.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when you got elevation and you put worship next to it, when you elevate and your worship, you suddenly start to go into a very dark satanic place, but doesn't look dark and satanic because it seems to be the norm.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's interesting because that is one of the big churches who really got big on the back of music music and Steven Furtick is the is the leader. Yeah. And he's on record as saying he is a God, to God and He said, You are all gods, and I got little g,
Reverend Ben Cooper:little J.
Simon Pinchbeck:But Ben, just read the Bible to find out
Reverend Ben Cooper:who we are. These movements are built off what they're built of music,
Simon Pinchbeck:music, yes. Very, very amazing music. There's another one coming up now very skilled,
Reverend Ben Cooper:very gifted,
Simon Pinchbeck:right presentation. So when you get good looking people,
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you get that mix, Now the Bible says that there was in the book of Isaiah, that there was nothing attractive in the way Jesus looked. There was nothing to attract me you to him in his appearance. But when you look at the appearance of this stuff, you think, wow, and that's attractive, and always sexually, but it's attractive because we're human beings. I love that looks great. Look at this. Look at this. That's
Simon Pinchbeck:there we are, we're back to imitation again, because here's the deal with this and it says you know, the Antichrist or be handsome sort of fell on it. But here's the deal. What is whenever you've seen the spirit, shine in the Holy Spirit showing as someone is glowing in its light? And they become very, very drawn to one Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, you're drawn to refuse What have you got? Yeah, there's a difference of what have you got? Not? Wow, look at
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean, Moses, when he when he countenance changed, his countenance changed, and your character has changed when I listen. I've had people you know, if you've, if you've been in the middle of some proper worship and some proper words, you know, a man will come up and go while you're looking. Well, you know, it's because
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Holy Spirit Spirit keeps shining out of you the glory of the it's the glory of God. And that's what happened to Moses, Moses was in the glory of the God of Israel, Jehovah Jireh, Jehovah Nissi, the great I AM. But we are living in very powerful times, and the westernized church, that charismatic movement is in trouble is in trouble. Because it has come away from the doctrines of grace. When you come away from the basic fundamental teachings of the Bible, you actually enter into an occultic world
Simon Pinchbeck:when I believe that they're higher than the Bible. Yeah, because that's what they believe. Yeah. And what they believe that everything we were promised in heaven, we can
Reverend Ben Cooper:have now enough, because they take the scripture from the New Testament where it says, And Christ said, It is finished. And with that, he bowed his head, and the temple curtain was torn into a man had access to heaven. But what they bought what what we, what they knock off the block here is that Jesus says, I am the Way the Truth and the Life No one comes to the Father except through me. So what heaven are you going to the Bible talks of, of different layers of heaven,
Simon Pinchbeck:when you when you leave, when you come back to the Bible? It's very easy to see through this, this argument and they're saying that Jesus is the most normal Christian ever, plus, what are they saying? And they're saying that Christ is not the standard. So for us, Christ is the standard in the Bible, everything so you you are more or less just dismiss it every fee all Paul's works. Oh, Paul, Paul says, oh, what
Reverend Ben Cooper:Paul the apostle is the greatest writer in the world.
Simon Pinchbeck:You're dismissing it because you've knocked out
Reverend Ben Cooper:uncountable hours I'm trying to work out yet uncountable hours of teachings. He even says, yeah. How can you dismiss it simply because power, manipulation, and control and worship man wants to be worshipped? What did Lucifer want? Worship? come and worship me. What does God say to the Israelites? Don't worship foreign idols,
Simon Pinchbeck:but look what so they're offering people an amazing thing. God, yeah, we're offering people, no sickness, pure health are often people, you know, they have reigns of golden age that comes through the air conditioned air conditioning, all that sort of stuff. You know, and they have old, amazing productions presentations. The symbolism, especially with Hillsong is very demonic. It's yeah, lots of triangles. It's the old ppi and all that sort of. Yeah, it's a cultish.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But there you go back to the Old Testament again, you'll find the symbolism where God said smash the astral poles, smash the altars of bow to get your jewelry and melt your jewelry in the pots and the product might golden calf.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, how it's coming. It's all the way through Ben, isn't it? Jim all the way from so I would say to anybody, you know, do your research is to make up your own mind. Do your research. We're just we're telling you what we feel when we're speaking from the Bible biblically. We are. But you know, do your own research because these days this charismatic,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that word is it's a very dangerous word at the moment. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what they go on about what we didn't bring the reference, and we're just bringing this as we come into our land here, one Timothy, chapter two, verse five, four, there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. So that's what they hang on. When it says in there, the writer of Timothy, he says, the man Christ Jesus, so they look at Christ, they go, he's the man. Yes, he is the man. He is the man but not in the way and the context, because you've taken the scripture out of context, and you've manipulated that text. He's Christ. So if Christ can do that, and they also got back on the scripture that says, what Jesus says, and what you say, may be doing you'll be doing even greater things. John 14, yeah, yes, a dangerous place to go. Because you can take any biblical reference and within a few moments, you can make yourself to a supernatural human being. And that is what the Old Testament talks about the sons of gods and the phillium. Warriors, you know, and we have them today, we have them today, we have demonic powers, that have an office of a position within the church.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's, it's frightening, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:But it's how do we hunt these
Simon Pinchbeck:out? It's pretty obvious. You know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know what Simon has said something really clear. It's obvious. But it's not to a lot because they've got sucked into because they don't know the Bible. And because we are the I would say this and please, it me with an email or text and tell me I got it wrong. I would say that big percentage of the charismatic evangelical churches across the westernized world and possibly, maybe more in the UK, are biblically illiterate, illiterate.
Simon Pinchbeck:A biblically illiterate is what? It's frightened. It frightens me when I go out amongst men's groups. Yeah. And I asked him certain scriptures well known scriptures. Yeah, no one knows it. No, no one is good, because no one is, is teaching or leading or disciple in people to get into the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The Bible says test, every spirit, everything, test every test every spirit. And the Bible also says you don't need man to teach you. Not many people say this scripture. You don't need man to teach you because the Holy Spirit teaches you.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because when you start reading the bomb, if you read the Bible, without the Holy Spirit, it's just information. Yeah. But with the Holy Spirit, it becomes revelation. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:completely turns it around information. As we all read it is information. And then when you get when you get the power of God guiding you and leading you through prayer, and through through times of reading, God revealed. So information suddenly becomes supernaturally revelation. So it is a fine line. So you can see our people get caught in all this stuff. Because what do we want signs and wonders,
Simon Pinchbeck:we want signs and wonders, we want things instantly. We want to feel that we belong to something but do you know something? There must be a lot of people out there, that when all this stuff goes off, they feel very uncomfortable. And when the
Reverend Ben Cooper:church closes, and they go home, they drive back and they go or they watch stop watching it and they go I didn't really get it. But I've got to get it because everybody else is getting it when actually we're not really getting it
Simon Pinchbeck:when Yeah, a lot of people we've been will say, you know, I saw it once in a church I was in the the the leader side banging on about worship and we should be you know, expressing ourselves in worship and not just standing there singing well, you know, to me, you know, whatever you want to do, you do you don't if you're comfortable just standing or sitting or maybe even not singing that it's But he was saying you should be on your knees thrown around, and all that sort of stuff. And then he sparked up the worship band. And guess what? Guess what the whole church was on any show. It's, it's totally non stop waving the flags and doing all that stuff worth. It's like, you know, it's just not speaking in tongues in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's the gift of the Spirit, you know. And what is really important is that, let God lead you, let God lead you. But then, well, this is this we have opened up, God has opened up, this is such a big conversation, but it's
Simon Pinchbeck:huge and enormous and update on we can, we can revisit it. So this will, you know, can leave it open ended. Because all the time, we are encountering very, very different things in different churches, and, you know, different different leadership models, different leadership roles. But wherever you got a leader that's very, that you feel is very controlling, that's not looking to look and and look and understand what your giftings are, yeah, then allowing who you are in Christ, knowing who you are in Christ, and then helping you or disabling you, or getting someone else to disturb you so that, you know, you can really be the man or woman that God made you to be. I think you're in trouble. Yeah, I think, you know, I think it's time to look and say to yourself, I'll question that question is, and you can question the leader and just right. Yeah, I've come across loads of people that won't even question their leaders, you know, because they're, yeah, because they're, they're too afraid of rocking the boat. Yeah. And, you know, what I see in men's groups all the time when we dig a little bit deeper. I see men at the end of these, these sessions that we do, men will go Do you know what he's either go a foot you add it all together, put together, but you're just as smashed as mayanja just underneath it all.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And that that is a beautiful scripture that says all have sinned and fall short of His glory, Romans 323
Simon Pinchbeck:So all what we've
Reverend Ben Cooper:been talking about is not lifestyle choices because no one is living completely pure and completely right. No one can do that in this earth. So so we're all in the same position of sin forgiveness, so all in but what we're looking at this morning is literally making sure that we are not being hoodwinked by false teaching.
Simon Pinchbeck:So I think there's not a lifestyle I think the over riding thing we can leave anybody listening to this is don't look to man, not don't look down because you will fall short. Is act like you and I all have fallen short. I mean, Amelie times been many times of people may be husband, a wife and the kids have been having a raffle to come to church, you know, the, you know, whatever's going on. It's all gone off. The kids shoved in the back of a car, there's still routing on the way to church, a pull up in a carpark. The bloke gets out sees his mate. Oh, yeah, blessed and highly favored our God loves. We're blessed family.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Come in my darling. Oh, holding hands. You're going to get you out this church. I'm gonna finish this right tell
Simon Pinchbeck:us the truth only because we're human. That's how it is. Don't that look this web of people to as the standard No, don't look to your leaders as the standard. Don't look to other people inside the church. Jesus is the standard and you'll find Him in the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When they said it, he said it is finished. We're done. We are landed. But please please remember what the scripture says in one Timothy chapter 4. being taught by the Holy Spirit and my being taught by deceptive, false demonic teachers, hypocritical liars May God bless you and strengthen you, been listening to Simon Pinchbeck, and myself here at # Christian straight talk may God just continued to fill you with His glory and His power. We will see you so so soon. Remember, God is with you. That's the most important thing. I pray and we pray that You become wise, wise. In the name of Jesus. God bless. Amen.
