Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Join Reverend Ben Cooper from Elim Swanley on a spiritual journey through life's profound questions, offering wisdom, insight, and a touch of humour in every episode. "Embarking on a soul-enriching voyage through the Bible's timeless wisdom and the Christian journey, with a diverse array of inspiring guests, Join us as we explore faith, life, and hope.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Maoz Israel - Israel (#221 Elim)
Reverend Ben Cooper talks with Reverend Brian Greenaway from Maoz Israel about the crisis in Israel and the Israel Update continuing on from episode (#204 Elim)
We are on Apple Music, Amazon Music, I Heart Radio, Buzzsprout, Spotify, and multiple other Podcast platforms - you will find us under the title Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast.
Good afternoon. Thank you so much for joining us for these podcasts that we have coming out of Elim church in here in Swanley. You're joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper with good friend Reverend Brian Greenaway. And he is from that great ministry at Moz. And as we gather around the mics this afternoon, this morning this hour, whatever your timezone is, we just want to say thank you to the 1000s of downloads that we are getting across the globe regarding all these podcasts that we do to everybody in the world of podcasting through Apple Music, I Heart Radio, and all the other platforms that we use, we just want to say thank you so much for sharing God's word and all your feedback. It is really interesting. It is fascinating to see the statistics coming back all the way through lockdown. But Brian is with us. We have a 45 minute record. And we are looking very clearly into his round. Brian has been gifted over and over again with his information and knowledge and so much to say. And I just welcome Brian, my good friend to the mic, Brian. Good afternoon.
Brian Greenaway:I do man. It's good to be with you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's great to have you back around the mics. It's been a bit of a stretch been a bit of a long time, isn't it because of the building work and everything has been going on through COVID and everything like that, but we seem to be getting a bit more of a patent together. And today we are looking at Easter or Passover and we've got an update before we go any further. Bringing the update. This is interesting.
Brian Greenaway:Okay, yeah, great. So I've been update from Israel, of course, it was good to bring an update what's happening. And if people have been following the news very recently, we know we've had a lot of terrorist attacks. People have died from terrorist attacks in three different cities. Wow. Just this week, just week, last week, and this week, and it was terrible. You know, there was one in what's called an area called B'nai barrack, which is not that far from Tel Aviv. Last night, last night, Tuesday night, Tuesday night, nights ago from where we're recording. So, yeah, sadly, that was five people, including an Arab policemen who was killed while he was sad. He was neutralizing the terrorist. Yeah. But he's died from his wounds, sadly. And then there was two, actually two Ukrainian men without any family connections who were working in Israel, as well. So these are people you know that yeah, maybe they're targeting Jewish people and two Jewish people did die, including a rabbi, when his wife I think was eight months pregnant. Pregnant indiscriminate
Reverend Ben Cooper:terrorist attack in discriminants, terrorism.
Brian Greenaway:And people were around but a car in the shower just a little while ago. It's really terrible, really, and scary for the population.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Most definitely. Hs the terrorist attacks heightened in the last few years, few months. Have you seen an increase through the terrorism and the activity of the bombers? Are you because it doesn't really hit? The BBC knows that much does it?
Brian Greenaway:No, it doesn't, does it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's quite interesting that we don't really they don't see much there. What is the best news channel? If someone wants to keep up to date with Israel?
Brian Greenaway:Right, you know, I would recommend a couple. There is I 24 News, which is an Israeli news channel, I 24. But then, people like to do some posts is quite good. But there is a chap who has a news program called all Israel News, Joel Rosenberg got all kinds of news you can sign up for I think it's a weekly Ebola t and I get that. And as all the news, what's happening in Israel in the Middle East. Wow. Interesting Israeli news and all Arab news.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We don't get that on the on our media channel. So it's very interesting. filtered. Yeah, well, we got that. We got that. So there are listeners, there's a good way of keeping very up to date with everything that's going on, but also read the Bible. Yeah, that's right. We get a lot from the Bible. Don't wait for the prophecies and everything where we're sitting. That's right. So last time, we had a long discussion, didn't we, which was good, but a bit more of introduction into res Rao. And today we have Easter or the Passover. That is an interesting title you have brought to the table, Easter or Passover. That's right. So the biblical standpoint, has to well, oh, gosh, it's got to be Passover.
Brian Greenaway:Well, this discussion that leavers often have, yeah, you know, when they have an understanding of Israel, and they understand more about the feasts. Yeah, they recognize that, you know, because in one Corinthians five, seven, Paul says these words, he says, then, therefore, purge out the old leaven, but you may be a new lump, since you are truly unleavened, for a deed at Christ, our Passover was sacrificed for us. So right there in the scriptures, you know, Passover is the word 76 times in the Bible 27 times in the New Testament, people don't realize that often it's mentioned rarely in the new just particularly, you know, in the gospels, and other places as well. So Passover is still it's not something that's disappeared. No. And people sometimes put one against the other. And you hear people who, you know, leader sometimes or individual Christians, and oh, we shouldn't have Easter. It's a pagan festival. You know, it's, it's taken over by a Christian. So that's an interesting thing that as leaders and as individual believers, we have to wrestle with, what should we do is, should we not have Easter? You know, we know it's not about Easter eggs don't you know, it's not about money.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But having said that, though, Brian, the amount of churches to care and meetings that I've been to, and then and all the stuff that goes with the festivities over Easter is always more pressed about across hot cross bun and the chocolate. That's right. It really is, isn't it? It's like we've taken on this pagan viewpoint. When it's clear, the Scripture talks about the Passover doesn't, that that's what it's about the passing over. And this is great, because this is just real biblical fact. Easter. Yeah, I've always struggled with that word a little bit, because it's pagan, isn't it?
Brian Greenaway:Well, it doesn't appear in the Bible. James version uses the word in Acts 12. But it isn't because it is the word Passover. Yeah, original language. So it's never used in the Bible. That term. You know, it was it was a festival that was really existing at that time. And the Christians in about 325 decided to use it Easter Sunday as being the because because that's not always on Sunday calls. Yeah. When whenever the calendar is that's when Passover happens. And it's just so happens for the last couple years and I think for the next five or six years, Easter and Passover will be on the same weekend. Are they are they are they seem to it's just how happened that the Canada's worked out that way. How interesting,
Reverend Ben Cooper:interesting, everything around the world. It is yeah. And then suddenly, we've got this calendar alignment. I don't even like use the word alignment. This this coming together of these these two dates, but he's always been oppressed with I would say, within the church within the UK, the word Easter. I've always heard that word. And I've never really heard and use the use the biblical term. The Passover, the party's over. Yeah, I think many will agree with us. Why don't they it's always Easter. And we're always following the the westernized calendar that which we are very familiarized with, which is very paganistic, very steeped in a lot of other things that we don't have time to talk about. But we should be following. When I say the Biblical calendar, the calendar is very different, isn't it? The calendar that you you have the you follow? Yeah, is very different to the Western calendar.
Brian Greenaway:Mm hmm. It is. Yeah, it's very different. And it was just that, you know, with a sort of church in about 300 or 300. AD, they really did kick anything Jewish out, you know, that became very anti Jewish. So in the counselor, nicea and 325 ad, there was all these bishops from across the world, Christian well, but they didn't invite any Jewish Bishop. So you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:so they ostracize them. So there was pushback back? Yeah. And they became
Brian Greenaway:very sort of adamant about the fact that people who believed in Jesus must not celebrate Passover, and must not keep these dates, and everything. There's a term called Korto disseminate. I think that's a quarter to seven family member, which was people, Christians at that time, who celebrated the death and resurrection of Jesus at Passover. And there was a rules that were set out by Constantine at that time that said, you're not allowed to do this anymore. You must not celebrate Passover, you must not tie in with that date, you must use this Easter Sunday date, which is all to do with the new moon and when it happens, and we're going to detail.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but you are right, what you're saying the New Moon is quite pagan, isn't it? It can be Emily, sometimes the origins of it. Yeah. Sometimes we look at the church within the UK without having to go across the shores anywhere else. And you actually look and I do believe God is stirring, stirring many leaders at this moment to reevaluate the dates the times the the language in which we use so Easter is just very, very on the forefront of the tongue. It's very there because we've always used it. It's very traditional. Every time there's a service being planned at that time is always Easter, but we don't look at the words enough, do we? No, we do not. Do not drill down into their, into their meaning. Are they biblical? Are they correct? wherever they come from, but the Passover Yeah, I love that word, the passing over.
Brian Greenaway:What is it as a Jewish person? Passover is really the most important thing in Jewish history really identifies who we are, you know, it's at a time when, when God called the children of his Israel out of Egypt. Yeah. Passover, of course, the blood on the doorposts. And which set them free. And they ended up being receiving the law and becoming a nation. So the identity of the Jewish people is centered on Passover. That's it. So that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is their string that is that the platform? Yeah, everything springs from nasty. It's to me. Yeah. And it should be, it should be for us as well, shouldn't it because when you talk about the blood of the Lamb, and you follow that, I can see you got biblical references there, when you follow this all the way through the meaning the meaning of the Passover. And so often we're here in in culture of church at the moment, God is love. And I know we know he's got his love, but when you look at this, what was what he brought, and, and the clear instruction, if you do not put the blood over, you, Will, you you will, you will die if you do not clear instruction. And obviously, we know we're in a new covenant, and you're right up on all the covenant and everything like that. So now we have the cross now we have the blood of the Messiah. So it's critical, isn't it that we understand the foundational point and what it talks about the Passover, because so true. And so right as you are, Easter is not a biblical term and reference, apart from that one tiny area, which is, you know, so the part of the King Yeah. The Passover is critical, isn't it? Yeah. It's It's the foundation is it's like the Genesis. It's the building blocks. It's the building block. It's, it's the core, it's what we miss the concrete is what we build off. And I think it's the same Would you agree with creation, when I understand creation, everything is in the understanding of creation, God's said, created everything. Through that we see redemption, salvage, everything is at the beginning. And when I get that, right creation, right, yes. Everything else is put into position correctly. If I if I skip Genesis, and just look at eschatology, rapture, the church gifts and signs and wonders. I haven't got my foundation. Right, right. That's right. Yeah. And right at the very beginning of time, we have the passing over the blood.
Brian Greenaway:And if you think about some references here from the Gospels, that whole framework of leading up to when Jesus died for us. Yeah. and rose again, is framed with a Passover reference. So you get a mark. Sorry, Matthew 2617. Now on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus Saint him, Where do you want us to prepare for you to eat the Passover? Then, Mark 1412. Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, his disciples said to him, Where do you want us to go and prepare that we may eat the Passover? So you know, as we're leading up to in the church, so the Church calls it Holy Week? Yes, that week when we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus that we should celebrate every day, every day, that's the time of the year when we do that, and it's good to do that. It's because it's important thing. So the the framework and the reference is they're not saying, when's Easter Jesus. They're saying they're all expectant for Passover and Jesus's as well, you know, he's not saying oh, we're not doing that anymore guys. And he never get away with Passover. So it Passover is that is that, you know, he fulfilled Passover, didn't he? Because he died, he died shed his blood. Yeah. So his blood is a sign that no the the death will pass over. Because of what he did you know, that's fulfilled in that. So it has to be to understand Easter time, like to understand the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is to understand Passover and its significance there. And sometimes people can lose that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can call it you can lose that you can get caught up in the hot cross bun and the bunny rabbit and chocolate and all the noise and it's bank holiday weekend. No, I got four days. It's, you know, it's like, but it it is, it is the key. It is critical. It is the it is the crucifixion, that the resurrection and everything, all the power that goes in that that is so important to understand that it is the Passover.
Brian Greenaway:I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate because we should. Yeah, of course we should. It's just but it's understanding and maybe reframing it a frame of reference has got a right the
Reverend Ben Cooper:words you put that it's a fright, it's the reference point taken. Take the word Easter away. It's like Christmas, isn't it? All the wording that goes along with all that sort of stuff and the church's rolls over with it and just let it in. Let it roll along when actually we need to be making a point of Hang on a moment. This is the Passover. What I'm remembering at this time is that Christ died for me and he rose for me and blood was shed for me and I am I am a child of the living God because of this. I don't even like his word the event but what happened that at Calvary and it's you're right it's about framing in Because I think we are finding in in the world of Christianity that that certain words are not what they actually mean I'm I'm being led to certain wordings and certain way that you present words and very worldly words are within the church. Yeah, yeah. It's like this word Easter like we keep coming back because obviously this is what the podcast is about but the Passover is a very powerful time. So we've got the three feet seven we've got the free fee, so explain them Brian. Yeah, so
Brian Greenaway:you've got firstly unleavened bread. Yes. So the Feast of Unleavened Bread was what they were told was that they should click all evidence from their home to make sure it's completely clean. And if you're at my been in Israel during Passover and you see people out and their balconies out in the street, they've got their carpets out their phones their Mac working it with a stick to get all possibility of leaven. I mean, that's a little bit religious, but you know, it's but get the 11 out of the house. So and it's sometimes it's a game with the children you know, help us clean the land and get the fridge out. 11 You know, yeast, yeast at all? And so the the Feast of Unleavened Bread where no bread would leaven yeast is in it at all.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So sweet fruit of the house. Yeah, completely house. Yeah. Sweet fro
Brian Greenaway:at St. aesthetic of the cleansing of sin. Wow. So you know, Jesus was without sin. So yes, in a way he he what he does, he fulfills that feat because he came unleavened with sin without sin. So that's the first face that he has number one. So the second piece of course, Passover itself. He is that as I read that scripture right at the beginning, Christ, For indeed Christ, our Passover sacrifice, right. So he becomes that lamb. He sheds his blood, yeah, for our sin and his sin covers, his blood covers our sin. And so we are forgiven. And that is the second feast. So when we're celebrating his death and resurrection, we look at that. Yeah. But then the third feast is, of course the the first fruits what's called the first fruits because they come really quickly behind each other and very, very close on they and the first fruit is in risen from the dead. Now Jesus rose from the dead as a first fruits, a sign of the victory over sin and victory over debt, and a sign that we too will be resurrected if we read one Corinthians 15. You know, Paul says whole church of Christ is not resurrected without you know, was, was the whole, you know, supporting the universe. So go out and do something else. It's a waste of time. It's a way if we don't believe in physical, whole resurrection of Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's really important as a believer, whether wherever I'm born or whatever, wherever I come from on the earth is to clearly understand the face because the feasts, obviously are biblical. They mean a lot. And you can learn so much through understanding these faiths Konya. And the way you've explained that it's just very, very easy to understand and you can see how all this ties together Yes, but if you just leave it as an open ended word Easter what what what is all about but when you when you bring it with a Passover and the amount of times it's referencing the Word of God, the words Passover, the shedding the blood and the passing over, I find that a really powerful part of the text where God says, If you do not put the blood above the door post, above the lintels, and above the windows and all that the angel of death, and then we go, Who could that be? God? Yeah. It's clear and simple, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. If you do not, if you do not follow, and he gives clear instruction of how to prepare, doesn't know how to prepare. Yeah, it gives a very clear instructions very fast, very clear, very positive. So you're not you know, it's very clear. You must do it without haste do this. ABCD put it in the base and at the door, put the is it the hip hyssop has been painted over the door down aside across your windows. And the angel of death will see that the blood is a sign that fascinates me that word will see that the blood is a sign. So there we have very clear, don't we that blood, there is something about blood there is
Brian Greenaway:yet without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sin. Amen. It is
Reverend Ben Cooper:so so right back in the Old Testament, and even in Genesis, we find that we weren't where it says there's life in the blood.
Brian Greenaway:Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So blood is critical, isn't it?
Brian Greenaway:It is yeah. Yeah. It's that it's the shedding of blood is because I know some people say, oh, yeah, within the law, we have the rules that say you shouldn't do anything with blood. Yeah. And we know certain, not Christof Koch other sex, they say, Oh, you must eat, you know, blood transfusion and things like this. But there's an interesting look at the Hebrew in that text. It's quite interesting because some commentators say the life is in the blood means that someone say the life is in the blood, you know, but But others say well, actually what it means is that where you see blood, yeah, no, that light blood has been shed and so life has been taken. Okay. And so if you look at it from that point of view, yeah. They're saying yes, when you see the blood of the lamb You know that the life of the Lamb has been taken, and the blood has been put on the door by sign it said, When Jesus shed his blood, so his life was given as well. So that's when the life is in the blood, it means it's been, you can see that life's been taken a life been taken in debate
Reverend Ben Cooper:amongst us, really is, isn't it? Very powerful text, isn't it life is in the blog, and God uses our over the doorposts over the windows. And he makes a very clear, clear distinction that if you if the blood is over, and it is sane, we will, I will, the angel will pass over you. But if you are not covered, death is going to be upon you. So mortality, and life is all depending on the blood of the Lamb.
Brian Greenaway:And anybody could have done that. Anyway, for the Jews and anyone Yes. Egyptian who follow that rule? And if you follow what it says there, it seems that anybody anybody done that anyone could have done that and got the protection? Because it's mean obedient very
Reverend Ben Cooper:deep, isn't it? Passover is a very foundational point to Christianity. We mustn't forget it. And no, and and do you? Have you heard many messages? Obviously, the the parts of Christianity that you walk in, it's very at your forefront. But do you think that the church actually generally preaches enough on the Passover and the remission and, and redemption? And oh, are we just bouncing around with guitars?
Brian Greenaway:I don't know, every church is saying and I think there's some churches, you know, they have these two readings and their services without these services. And, you know, some may give a reference, although, actually something I read the other day, there was a sort of article by Krishna leader. Yeah. And he said, You know, when they had the Last Supper, that was the last Passover, which I thought was quite interesting. And I thought, I think I knew he was trying to say, Yeah, we didn't need sacrifice anymore. You don't care about animals. So you know, that made sense. In one sense. Yes. And you know, there's always this debate. A lot of Christians like to do Passover, suppose if they want to do anything Jewish?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Yeah, it's got a bit of part, and
Brian Greenaway:maybe many of our listeners have been to Passover. So yeah, I mean, I've been to them in Israel, and they're great. And sometimes they can be, I mean, you can do the whole thing in half an hour. But sometimes they go over hours, you know, you're thinking, food. God, so but then it's quite good. Because the whole idea of the Passover, and this is how God structures some of these things. Because one of the key things about Jewish people is to remember, remember what God has done for you. Yeah, so the Passover supper, you'll have the whole family there. And there'll be you know, be songs, maybe readings that we storytelling, this questions that the youngest child will ask, why do we do this? Why do we, why do we dip greens in salt water? Yes, remember the tears, man, people, you know, when I was in slavery, so is a learning. You know, quite often people learn better if they're involved larger, you know, if you're involved in different rote learning. Yeah. And so a Passover supper is a learning exercise. And the people sit around the table, and they look at the different emblems, you know, there's the mat subreddit is broken. And part of that core, the FE command that which comes after is hidden away. And later on, they have to go and find it. So it was like, laid in the ground hidden layers in parallel with Jesus to dying and being hidden from the dead. And then coming back later, there's all it's a it's a learning exercise. And I think a Passover meal is one of the best things because you have good to eat. It's always good to eat. Yeah, it's always good if it doesn't involve food, it's not Jewish and, and so you get to eat together, which is always good. But also you get to listen to the story of the Exodus and the Passover, and emblems and they all point to Jesus in one way or another which is quite amazing. It
Reverend Ben Cooper:is amazing considering first of all,
Brian Greenaway:seven mils are good. So I would encourage people if you're a local church or someone even your synagogue is doing one visit synagogue for very interesting and connect with Jewish people locally. And say I want to learn more about it. Have a Passover have a Jewish family if you haven't yet. And actually, one of the things about Passover is it's really is they really have to have stranger with them someone to visit Oh, really? Yeah, that's really the thing. So So yeah, I'd say do a part you know, get involved in part or do it yourself, you can find what's called a Passover. Haggard. Ah, yes, Ha Ji a double D H. And that word means just telling parceling telling that story. You can get them off the internet, simple ones or longer ones and do it yourself
Reverend Ben Cooper:and actually give you instruction and give you a clear what to say. Absolutely amazing.
Brian Greenaway:There's no hard fast rule. You know, it must be this way. It
Reverend Ben Cooper:must be otherwise you will be struck down.
Brian Greenaway:But it's a good way of learning together as a family and I think
Reverend Ben Cooper:We've watched your regard into food and community coming together and talking about it. It is such an easy way of learning isn't it? It's a way that you can learn. It's not a threatening environment. It's not like you're a preacher at the front really, really going at it. You've got time to think about you got time to relax, you've got time to analyze. So the past the feast in in the Word of God just fascinate me and I have for years. And it we're at that time, aren't we? Where were we where we are really, I believe we are really spiritually alert with everything that's going on. So it's interesting that the calendars have come together at this time for the next four or five years I find that interesting of what's going on around the world as well. But as a believer, I do think that Christians we should have a greater understanding of all the feasts have all the calendar references because they tie up so smoothly with the Word of God and and when we've explained them before we've looked at the face it actually brings the word alive in a different way it has a an amazing spiritual presence of when you see him partake in these these these festivals and these these mills and these this process in and it's so steeped in history what it's come from Yeah, how many 1000s of years top your head is this come from? You know the Passover how cool goodness 1000s of years from the from the Old Testament 3000 years ago, come all the way up and it is still as real today. As it was that the clear instruction clear biblical instruction. And Brian said something that fascinates me is that they're celebrating Christ and yeah is
Brian Greenaway:celebrating right yes. Well, that's confused assembly Yeah, that how do they come with that elements that they do at Passover some of the symbols that are on the Passover plate the Seder plates a no means order that some of them might have been put in by Jewish believers in Jesus in the past. And they just sort of carried through and so a lot of Jewish people do them now and think why do we do that? They might do we do this by LC? Tears. sorters represent tears. But some of the elements you know be less so point so clearly to Jesus. But you think people think they put them in after because it because we've got the pastor of an exodus. Quite simple, isn't it? So? Take the lamb. Yep. A blood. shed the blood, you know, to put on the dog. Yeah, get ready with your shoes on your coat on ready to go. And you've got to take unleavened bread because you have got time to bake the bread for it to rise. So some of those, but it's quite simple there. So these things have been added over the years. You know, it wasn't it'd be a three hour meal. There we go. It's so it's been built upon with traditions. Yeah. And some, some Jewish people don't know why do we do that?
Reverend Ben Cooper:But can you just backpedal a bit? Talk about the tears what you said about the tears? Oh, yeah. So
Brian Greenaway:that's one of the elements on the plate on the plate. So greens are used like pastels are used to dip into salt water, okay, and then it's shaken out. And then you eat the greens. And so one of the question is, why do we sort of water because it reminds us of the tears of the Israelites when they were in Egypt? You know, they had to bake the Yaks. Yeah. So it reminds us of the tear. So it points us back to a time of sorrow. But it also points forward to a time of freedom as well. Okay, you know, so that we see that the shed blood of the Lamb? Yeah, you have a bone? Yeah, shank bone of a lamb on the table as well. Right. And that reminds you of the Lamb, the Passover lamb. So points, at least
Reverend Ben Cooper:it all point. Yeah, it all points and it all comes and it all focuses back to them as all the colored of the Lamb.
Brian Greenaway:And that always has to be the focus, doesn't it? Always believers, we must make sure. I heard someone say I didn't make this one. If we start with Israel, probably going the wrong direction. If we start with Jesus, okay, if everything is focused on Jesus, we see how Passover points to him. That's always anchor, isn't it? So Easter Passover, wherever we celebrate in our church. And people say oh, we know people that we shouldn't have Easter but you know, our church will be having a resurrection service. And we'll be celebrating the death and resurrection of Jesus on ease what we what they call Easter Sunday ties in with Passover. And that's what it is. It's centered on Christ. And that's the most important thing is
Reverend Ben Cooper:and that is our complete understanding our complete walk with him, isn't it? Everything needs to be Christ centered it does. When it's Christ centered, simple. It's very simple, isn't it? But when I start going to the outside and trying to add it and put everything else first, that's when confusion comes in, doesn't it? But when Christ is the center, Seek you first the kingdom of God and His right seek God keep God at this Enter Christ. That is such a, a strength. Obviously he did Jesus first is to the left as the right was front of us and behind us that has to be Christ in, in every era and, and it just brings everything together so purposely and so mean mean meaningful, doesn't it and so smoothly and so powerfully. But the Passover is just a fascinating time. And you said something earlier about the breaking of the bread? And as the scripture says, Do this in remembrance of me. Yes. So again, it's coming back to Christ in remembrance of me. So everything is about him and for him. Really powerful stuff.
Brian Greenaway:Every time we take communion. That's what that's about, isn't it? Every time they have a supper,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but then we get them within religion, that there are certain faiths out there that say you can't, I won't allow you to take off this. Because A, B, C, and D. But, but that's religion, isn't it? But Christ says, doesn't he? Yeah, as often as you are together, Do this in remembrance of me. So it is Christ centered is remembering Christ, we know religion has changed it and manipulate it in certain areas, and held it back from certain people in congregations. But whatever. And however, if we look at the biblical reference, it is about Jesus makes a clear statement is often very interesting, Brian, really, really powerful,
Brian Greenaway:don't lose track of it. I mean, you see, the symbols don't do the resurrection. And I think one of the craziest verses in the Bible, when Jesus dies on the cross, it tells us in one of the Gospels, that holy people came out of their graves. Yeah, and appeared to people they knew in the city of Jerusalem. And you think, isn't that the craziest verse? And I think, you know, can you give to give a scenario? I don't want to make it too funny. But now come on. I can imagine there's this couple so maybe this Levi, Miriam right there in their home in Jerusalem? Yeah. And and they hear the door knock, don't they? And then Miriam goes to the door, and the person who's out the door, and they said, it's your cousin, it's your cousin is your Cousin Mordecai, because Mordecai died two years ago, at the door, you know, what's he doing the door tell him that he can't have his lawnmower back. Because you know, it's just sort of Jerry juicing that this people. I mean, it is embracing biblical fact it is it did happen, and didn't happen. There are unanswered questions. Where did they go afterwards? Yes, but to me what I see that is because Paul is very strong in yesterday's 51st fruits. So Christ was the first fruits wasn't a he died. Yeah. And he rose again, which is a symbol that we can be resurrected when we believe in Christ, and we will be in the future after we die. But in a way, I think that what that symbolizes that crazy event is crazy is fruit from the dead, that those those were released from the grave. And we're able to appear as a witness if you're like a witness to the Jewish people, injuries, the amount of time that Christ had power over death. And that said, Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you know what, Brian, I've never really drawn any thought to that scripture. But when you really think about that, that there have been people that have been dead for years. Yes, yeah. And then who were they were suddenly seen and recognized as they was? How can this be? We understand as soon as a body dies within hours, rigor mortis, we understand that there's decay, we understand every it happens so fast, but then suddenly have someone in your pathway that had passed X amount of years. Yeah, at the same time, as Christ is, is doing what Christ is doing. The power, that he holds the keys to death into life. Magian what that was,
Brian Greenaway:I mean, you think he's who was that? I mean, yeah, I mean, you mustn't conjecture on any of these, you know, was it David because, you know, he was buried in the city Jews. Yeah. And it was not there. Now, you know, they do have a tomb and they say they're buried but other the I mean, I don't know it. Could it have been people that became believers, while Christ was ministering on the earth? Okay. had died. Yeah. Is it something to do with that? We don't know. And where did they go? Yeah, no, that's great.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What what someone could put in this mix. Where did they go? They go? Yeah, that have been awful. I've gone back down, come up for a few hours and then carry on
Brian Greenaway:living.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Where did I go?
Brian Greenaway:Like Elijah? I did a lot of life. Not did they? Were they sort of translated as a word we might use? Well, yeah, taken, taken to another place. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's what happened, Lord revealed.
Brian Greenaway:He put things in the scripture that we don't understand. And I think he does it on purpose.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He does it on purpose without a shadow of a doubt. So you have to let us know as mortals that His ways are higher than our ways he doesn't tell us everything he doesn't. What we need to know what we need to know And that is the mystery, isn't it? This is the mystery of the Godhead. Yeah. But what a powerful time to be alive now to experience everything we've experienced to come through. I think we've come through, and now we've reached Passover. So the question is, will I use the word Passover? Well, I'll use the word Easter that's been drummed into me through years and years of walking. This. Unbelievable.
Brian Greenaway:I don't get too hung up about what I think people can you know, you get these you can kinda it's like, the Sabbath, isn't it? Yeah, maybe we could do a podcast on the Sabbath song. Oh, but the day, we'll get an my good friend, David Harper. And he says, Yes, I'm copying him. It's a Jewish believer in Jesus written a great book called the Jewish Jesus, the Jewish Jew, the best book on that subject about x church in Israel. But he says people talk to him and they say, David, how do I do Sabbath? He says, you don't do it. Don't do. It's not like, here's the rules, you know, he's got all this paper out and read all these rules. He says, then you've lost what the Sabbath is, is rest. Enjoying God, being with your family, and resting? That is the Sabbath. It's not like a set of rules or I must like a certain candle at a certain time or say a certain prayer. And you know, we have a we at home, we celebrate the feast on a big deal. But you know, that we were there are certain prayers, like, for example, the Hannukah. Yeah, that we used to use and we used to read them, and ask Ron, I thought, why isn't it better to have a heart prayer? Yeah, yeah, a heart prayer rather than prayer from a piece of paper. Now it's fine to read prayers because he is wrong. But is it from your heart, so we don't use them pattern of prayers that others do now? We just pray ourselves? Because that's what God wants. He won't say I don't wanna hear what other people wrote. I want him what you said. A very interesting point. So it's like Sabbath. It's like Passover. It's like it's the hard thing, isn't it? It's about enjoying God, that recognizes holy and that you die for us and we have to live discipled holy lives, but enjoying God and enjoying what God has given us in our lives.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Absolutely amazing. Brian, it is Thursday today. So Friday, tomorrow. Yep. What is so special about Friday? Is your Shabbat Shalom Shabbat,
Brian Greenaway:as we say that, of course, a Jewish calendar is starts when the sun goes down. This is the day starts now that often that we
Reverend Ben Cooper:were when the sun disappears, because we
Brian Greenaway:think midnight to midnight. That's right. Yeah, but actually what's really hard to get into people's heads is a day a Jewish day starts when the sun was sundown to sundown right? So Shabbat starts on Friday night when the sun goes down. So if it when the sun goes down,
Reverend Ben Cooper:now certainly gets dark at seven o'clock. Yeah, as soon as the sun has disappeared from the from your eyes, we enter into
Brian Greenaway:the next day. So I'm on a Friday because Friday night is the Sabbath. And so in Israel and in some Jewish communities across the world, when it's getting to say I don't want time the sun goes down the moment because I got to restrain maybe 630 for argument's sake so about 530 Altar over effect in the in the winter you know, we it goes down at four four at the shops have already closed by sort of just after lunchtime, and people are rushing around getting their shopping and everything and getting ready for the Shabbat getting ready to have to rest
Reverend Ben Cooper:so their day is governed by daylight hours. daylight hours by the sun
Brian Greenaway:in Israel you hear the siren go off the siren goes to bat started now.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Done. It's that so where we might say if it's dark in Israel? Like seven o'clock? Yeah, we we go until 12 o'clock. Yeah, we do for the next day. So they're Tuesday starts a good number of it's not governed by the Tick Tock is not governed by the clock. It's governed by the element the sky is governed by the daylight it's not governed by is five two is almost four minutes too. So so every day is slightly different. It is
Brian Greenaway:it moves so many times. So your pain is where you have shame at times you can if it was a Google, Shabak times or daylight time it will be find it and it would be moving all the time during the year because because the sun is different.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. So as as we are here now Part Four on Thursday afternoon when that starts to get dark. In say seven o'clock tonight. Do you switch over
Brian Greenaway:to the next day on Yeah, we live within the culture we are in don't we?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Sorry. I know. Yeah. It's just curious, isn't it? It is it's a really hard thing to get your head Do you ever get caught in that sort of frame of mind?
Brian Greenaway:I think I'm still because I've always lived in the UK. I'm used to the seven days a week and their 12 to 12 sort of thing. But it is interesting because you get like what happens is you know, in Israel is you know people stopped working which is good. In fact, what actually happens is because 50% of Jewish people don't believe in God is on a Friday night Everybody's rushing up to the gallery to go you know get a day away and you know, with the family really can get incredibly busy on the Friday night and people traveling apart from the Orthodox Yeah, religious do so But but on the Saturday night when the sun goes down business starts so they don't come alive
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, hang on so Saturday's getting dark yeah when the sun goes when the sun disappears okay shops open
Brian Greenaway:yeah that's right things start to get alive again the plane start flying because the airport doesn't fly at airport doesn't fly so there's a lot of planes after the Chabad well mainly because there are some you know flying that actually allow the national airline doesn't fly out. So you'll find that on Saturday night when you're leaving Israel. There's a lot of planes bunched on that Saturday night ready to go ready to go. And, and Monday because it always throws me is Sunday is a workday. That's what
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm gonna just about to ask you. First day of the week. The first day of the week is a sound.
Brian Greenaway:Monday here is a Monday morning is ready. It's Sunday morning. And you find it funny,
Reverend Ben Cooper:trying to balance that out I find that fascinating to that to know that they they're looking at the sun rather than than the Western eyes clock looking not looking at the time but they are looking. So obviously summer, their days are longer. Winter, their days are shorter. But with us it's 12 o'clock whenever it whatever the elements are doing. Our time stays the same, doesn't it? It does but with with the Jewish they got more time to rest and more time to work. So there it's important is Yeah, so there's a there's a nice flow with the seasons. Yeah, it's true. That there's there's a variation isn't there they that their body is moving with the seasons. And what's the movement of the sun, not that word worshipping the sun, but we know what we're saying. But that's very interesting. But here in the West, everything is 24 hours is 12 o'clock. Today, tomorrow, everything is governed. So that that is such a biblical way of life, isn't it following that the daylight hours, listening and looking at nature and follow in the culture and the festivals, I think it would be great for a westernized believer to actually study all the feasts, you know, the time zones, the daylight hours, that everything that goes along with that. I find it fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. Brian, we reached that time already. Absolutely gone. 45 minutes. It just zipped by how would you bring this to a full stop? Oh, yeah.
Brian Greenaway:Well, when this podcast goes out, it'll be nearly Easter sort of. Yeah. Yes, it will. I would say the most important thing is to celebrate with your family. Yeah. And to share the Good News of Jesus, you know, he died and he rose again. And that is the greatest news in the world, isn't it? Yeah. Everything else we need to celebrate as believers ourselves and share that with other people.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Absolutely amazing. Brian, just very, very quickly in the closed down. How can we get out of you? Yeah,
Brian Greenaway:well, we've got a website, which is mas ma o Zed mas Israel on word.uk. That's our website. Or you can email us on UK at mas Israel. dot o RG.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So simple. Brian, we thank you so much for sharing your time, and all the wealth of information that God has dropped into your spirit and your biblical knowledge. It is beautiful to see you again today and to all our listeners around the world. We pray that you will have a great and wonderful Passover. And God will bless you at this time and he will really open up the envelope of the Scripture. And please remember share all this stuff out and Brian has said so easy you can capture him. And now we are getting back to some form of regular recording. We will keep pressing the drum with our friend Brian May God bless you and strengthen you. You can find us on I Heart Radio. You can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, Amazon music and many other platforms. Thank you so much for sharing all these podcasts. Have a great day in Jesus name. Amen.
