Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
Join Reverend Ben Cooper from Elim Swanley on a spiritual journey through life's profound questions, offering wisdom, insight, and a touch of humour in every episode. "Embarking on a soul-enriching voyage through the Bible's timeless wisdom and the Christian journey, with a diverse array of inspiring guests, Join us as we explore faith, life, and hope.
Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast
#CST - The Authority in Redemption (#CST5)
Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck take to the Mics for a general discussion, #Christian Straight Talk, straight out of the barrel of truth.
This weeks discussion is The Authority in Redemption.
Listen on Apple Music, Amazon Music, I Heart Radio, Buzzsprout, Spotify, and multiple other Podcast platforms - you will find us under the title Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast.
conflict. And welcome to # Christian straight talk, your joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon pinch back today as we gather across the mics across the table of truth, as we've got chocolate biscuits, and we have a cup of coffee, but more more more more powerful than that we have the word of God, you are redeemed. This is a powerful time we are in Holy Week, where there is a lot of things happening in the theatrical performance of the church and religion. But what does this week really mean to you as a believer, it is about redemption. It is about salvation. It is about the grace of God it is the power of the living Christ, you are redeemed doesn't matter about what the world says doesn't matter about what the Church says doesn't matter about what anybody says about you. You are a son and a daughter of the living God, and our Father in Heaven is for you. But this week is a beautiful week in the world of Christianity, redemption. And Simon has brought that interesting title to the mics. I am redeemed Simon Good morning, my friend.
Simon Pinchbeck:Good morning, Ben. I think we can just about stop there, Mike, because that's gonna knock somebody out really well.Thank you. Yeah, well done. Well done. Well done. Yeah. Lord is speaking through a day. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Keep picking me up. Keep picking me up. Because it's all about
Simon Pinchbeck:you. Yeah. Now, it's great to be across the mics back in Swanley been. And yeah, the title today is, I am redeemed, you know, Ben, we're gonna have a look at this in the time that we've got and because I do believe that there's many many people out there that you know, have got a faith. Yeah. But they they don't believe or realize what it took for them to get that faith. I don't realize what what what it took Jesus Christ to, to go through to get that to get yet to die for us to be safe. So so we're going to look look into that a little bit deeper. And we're going to look into really so people salvation and how they came out they think they're saved and whether they are or not because it's it's super important right now and and you know, you I'm pleased you call it the Holy Week, because this is the Holy Week, Ben. You know, Easter is a name that's been put on it, but Easter really is more fluffy chickens and rabbits and Easter egg hunts and all that sort of stuff init.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but he's doing it the church. The church will find the Easter egg. Hang on our church and find salvation across bands. Come on, come on over not cross band. Jesus loves you. You're not talking about my Jesus My Jesus came to set me free for redemption. Don't give me another rock cross band that is about the strength for the preaching across the church this day and age and,
Simon Pinchbeck:Mike it's it's very, very, it's, you know, that's not laughing any body let's get people in. But then the truth is, look,
Reverend Ben Cooper:come on, bring it.
Simon Pinchbeck:If we go into you know, I will save and if we go into the Bible again, because we got it out on the table and we'll go into the Bible. One Peter 118. And 19 says this Ben it says, knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things like silver and gold from your aimless conduct, received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot, Oh, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:love that Simon, this is a this is the day this is the day of redemption every day is the day of redemption. So what why am I redeemed because he loves me. So salvation is a gift as we know that is been given by God, you have been saved by grace. So we are saved we are washed and what else does that mean? Redemption. So this week, Holy Week is a very powerful week, isn't it? But what I see is religion is just acting out another festival. When does it really it's wave in the palm branches. It's shot and it's all around. You know, you've got Catholicism, you've got the Church of England, you've got the Pentecostal movement. You've got all these movements doing all this stuff, putting it on, but are we preaching the cross? The crossed redemption?
Simon Pinchbeck:I think sometimes we're so far away from it. But look, what does that mean? Look, I don't know whether I'm on the right track here but I see that it's a ransom that was paid for us. You are exactly right. We are loved
Reverend Ben Cooper:We are live all times conditionally that we are, but not by the love that religion and church portrays. When you think about the love the Agha pay love, the love that God showed and displayed in John 316. That love was the death of his son. That's not light and fluffy and clouds and, and jumping and dancing, that love is a brutal love.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, very, very much. So, then. And, you know, we know we were wonderfully and fearfully made and we were made in the image of Christ, but we all like sheep and have gone away and, and first for God to actually give his own son as a ransom for our lives. That is think about that. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:actually, I'm gonna I got to be careful here because this week is to me is a week of very it's an a very unemotional journey because he saved a sinner like me, as that great gospel writer writes a wretched man Amaya, I am the lowest of the lot that I'm talking about me now I'm the lowest of the lowest of the lowest of the lowest of the low. And if you think you're low, you want to get inside my head, I'm low, right? But I realized that I am redeemed. Ephesians chapter one, verse seven, in Him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, All have sinned and fallen short of His glory. There is no one on this earth that is worthy of the sun. But because of his love, that is the Agha pay love and John 316 and not this wishy washy, pink rose, pet old love that the church is portraying. You want to see love go to the cross a Calvary, that will that is the brutal love that is the love of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:And I think you Ben, do you think there's not enough people point into a cross, there's not enough explanation of what happened on the data love. God is love. You know, for us, to be redeemed for us to be ransomed. A price had to be paid. And as it said in this scripture, you know, but with the precious blood of Christ as a lamb without blemish, now he is no blame the the he just got he was crucified. He was crucified as a as a sacrifice on the cross and, and the pain we've explained that before in someone whose podcast the pain of actually being nailed to the cross was bad enough, but the ultimate pain and suffering are falling for the Father. And for Jesus was the fact that when Jesus said, my Oh, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? The separation is the separation of Jesus from the Father, He never remember. If you remember, if you listen to this out there, remember that Jesus did not do anything without consultation with a fiery and constant concert. And that's on offer because of his his death for us too. But at that time, the father could not look at him. Why? Because it had your sin or my sin. The sin of all the world and this world is a wicked, terrible place at times are all that sin of the past or that sin of the present and all and sin of the future poured out on top of His Son Jesus Christ. He couldn't look at him. He
Reverend Ben Cooper:couldn't look at him. So what you're saying, Simon is that there was a transaction, there was a transaction and we automatically think of Judas Iscariot 30 pieces of silver, dirty money that that dirty money shows around dirty money is amongst the church. You know, the church is always on about money, dirty money. That was dirty money, but the but what had to happen there had to be a blood sacrifice. There is only one atonement, there is only one that could take away the sins of the world, there is only one that could set the captives free. And to understand the basic understanding and the basic principle of redemption. It is it is a switching over and it is taken back. So through the garden of a sudden, we lost what we should have had. So So God put in in a plan of redemption plan and it took him 1000s of years over the timeline of history through the word of God, through everything we see in the Old Testament. And when Isaiah prophesies of there is a redeemer, there is a redeem of redemption. This is what this week is about. This is what actually to be fair. Every day we should be reminded that we are redeemed not just because it's a hot cross buns season in Asda and Morrisons and older jobs. And the church is just following a pattern with the westernized calendar because that's all we are doing. And let me tell you this, you won't find the word Easter in the Bible, what you will find is the Passover. Christ said three times in the book of Matthew, prepare for the Passover, the Passover, this is the passing over what is it the passing over off? The angel of death? Who was it? Lucifer? No, God, and what did he say? The blood will be a sign? Is the church talking about the blood of Jesus? No, we need sound doctrine. We need the power of the Word of God and Simon of the board a very powerful word to the table redemption. Am I redeemed? Am I worthy of redemption? Am I saved? I
Simon Pinchbeck:think that's that's a really good question that we need to ask ourselves, every single one of us needs to ask that question to ourselves, Ben, because when you look at a price that was paid, because that's what it's about the price when you look at a price that was paid. And he says in, in Titus 214, he says, he that he might, he says, who gave Himself for us that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify yourself God, himself, his own special people's zealous for good works. So look at that. So the price that was paid by God's son, who was absolutely sinless, and here we've outlined and pure, the price that was paid for your salvation, my salvation is a question today is this is the church and certain aspects of the church, making it so easy to be saved, or suggesting, or inviting people to say a little prayer? Come down the front, if you truly mean it, God now, and you're saved up, to be honest, when when you when you look at the price that Jesus paid that God the father paid the price that they both paid for the separation, ovation, the separation, the darkness that was done, are in us the pain, the suffering,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Father, forgive them all away, right the way until the last sentence, when the world was changed. When Christ said, It is finished, what was he talking about? What he was saying was the law was finished. And now I'm here because I'm the Savior of the world, you are entering into a new covenant, you're safe by the blood.
Simon Pinchbeck:So I want to ask you this question when when you put the severity of it in those terms, and the importance of it in those terms. For someone to say, a small prayer, which you won't find in the Bible, where is it nowhere, you won't find the salvation prayer to sinners prayer anywhere in the Bible, know, someone to say and put the razor end up in an emotional state or ever.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So he's putting the strength back on the human. I have decided that today I'm gonna say the sinners prayer. No way.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then the fruit of that is that you carry on living your life. Yeah, just as you was it before. But I'm saved because I said a little prayer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And the pastor and the preacher and the teacher and the bishop and the cannon, they hide a stadium, I run down the front in euphoria, and in a motion, rather than understanding what I'm actually doing good point. I've been saved five times in conferences.
Simon Pinchbeck:I've seen that happen. I've heard people say,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you how many times have people run to the front?
Simon Pinchbeck:And what will a pastor listen, you know, I've been part of it. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is this is the drama The Church. This is the this is the severity that we are living, we are living in the Book of Revelations, we are living in the End Times. And the scripture says work out your salvation with fear and trembling. My mom this week is about the blood of Jesus, not about palm trees, not about the performance of church and religion and the Passion of the Christ and everything that goes with that. Because when you look at all that you're looking at how the church is portraying it when it's quiet away from Scripture.
Simon Pinchbeck:Honestly, Ben, I think I saw something that in the week I saw that were YouTube clip to clip of a guy called Paul Washer and valley Bolcom. They were both saying this is they've declared war on the sinners prayer. They say they say is the prayer that God hates the monster. And you got to you can't not agree with them. You got to agree with them be Because
Reverend Ben Cooper:what's the script? What's the script your base? What is the, when you look at that?
Simon Pinchbeck:So what you get then is this you get, you'll get, and many of the listeners will concur with this. You get someone doing a sermon on something other than the gospel. It might be tithing, it might be, yeah, it might be harder though just living in life or whatever. And then at the end, the soft music will come on, and come and
Reverend Ben Cooper:receive Jesus, it will come and receive Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then people have walked in the front.
Reverend Ben Cooper:On one, I walked down the front, because I've raised guilty, because I'm the only one left in the seat.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then, and then they'll say, congratulations, you're welcome with the kingdom of God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:can you fill the form out now as
Simon Pinchbeck:you build this form? I used to see, you know, men's conferences been you ever 50 100 Fellas run to the front? Yeah, it'd be clapped into the kingdom, and they'll be cheering or whatever, then they'd be asked to go to a prayer room to you know, you'd lose off on between between the front and the president, you lose them. And then, and then you'd see off them in a beer tent in the beer tent. You're exactly right. And they'd go saved again,
Reverend Ben Cooper:saved again, we were in a very serious
Simon Pinchbeck:importance put on this, that the gospel hadn't even been preached. The gospel has not been explained that press
Reverend Ben Cooper:Correct. Yeah, the gospel, we know that. We don't actually need the gospel to be preached for God to work, we clearly understand that. But when there's a manipulation of religion and ministries, using it for statistical purposes in, in large in the ministry, rather than lifting up the Messiah, we have a serious issue in religion. Now, when you think of Billy Graham, you think of the great crusades, we're not taking anything away from that, because there are many that know that they've been saved in crusades, and God has used that. But where we sit at this moment, it is very important to understand is that the church with just within the UK, and we have to use the word church because we all say we're, we're church with church goers, and this and that, does the church that I go to preach Jesus Christ and the blood does the church talk about doctrine? Does it talk about grace and mercy and sanctification, and redemption and being redeemed? Does it talk about that all year, if it's not talking about it all year, it's not the church of Jesus Christ, because every day is a day of redemption. Every day is the day of salvation simply because I am a sinner, and I'm falling continuously, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, through the power of redemption, through the power of justification. I'm getting slowly but surely, cleaner as I go. So one hit. Ain't gonna do it.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not gonna do it. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's a daily daily trade. It is a daily Tredway what they pull right Simon?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you know what you were you give more of your old life. Every day, ISIS every day
Reverend Ben Cooper:that can't be across.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's what it means. I've been sending Galatians 220 I've been crucified with Christ. It's not either live, but Christ who lives in me. So Christ is living in you. How can you go and live in now they were before you can't be cut. Why? Because someone has sold you, as you quite rightly said, maybe manipulated you someone has sold you the lie that saying a
Reverend Ben Cooper:small prayer. Yeah. gets you into the kingdom of heaven. And there's a lot of one time one time for one time thing, when actually the sinners prayer is irrelevant. What is more important is the Lord's Prayer, and the Bible. Galatians 220 Simon has already quoted this, and I have it in front of me, I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body. I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. So every day is a redemption day every day is a redemption day. Every hour is a redemptive hour. So every time I go into church, I should be here in the blood of Jesus, the cross of salvation.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, the thing is, some churches are going Ben don't even across in the church channel anymore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know of a local church around us that took the cross off and replaced it with a TV. Think about that man serious
Simon Pinchbeck:because the crosses offensive in it, of course can be offensive so that we can be offensive. It's funny, it's interesting. You mentioned Billy Graham and I've got my mr. It was down in Wales and in Wales, I think they had about, I don't know, that 1000s of people going here and when he came over to this is all his stuff. And, and they had, I think 3000 People respond to the gospel. And just before my mic went up to speak, a guy shoved something in his hand and said it and he looked at it, it said 3000 responded at Billy Graham's.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Billy Graham's, break it down a little bit more. He
Simon Pinchbeck:said, he said, two years later, and I don't know how they got this. But they got it. He said, two years later, only 30. Were going on with the Lord. Yeah. So then you got this great Bible, right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm going to introduce a word that could be quite controversial, the Kundalini spirit. The church is caught in euphoria,
Simon Pinchbeck:you pull that one out of the bag, and you will get one right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Right, the church is caught in a false revival, a revival that is not from the Messiah, a false feeling. The church is using itself as a buyer as a body. Yeah, we're not it's the body, but the body is a gateway. So we need to be very careful what we open ourselves up to spiritually. The church is very pagan at the moment, the church has witchcraft operating in it. The church has black magic, white magic, the church has so much operating within itself. There are many churches, especially in Kenya, that have carvings in the building, because they was medieval churches. What was his name? The God of the forest. So there are many pulpits, we've carvings of foreign gods in the pulpit, and the clergy don't even know they're in, they're hidden in certain places up in there. So we have a lot of churches within Ken and around the surrounding areas that are that are very mystical in lots of sorts of things that are going on. So when you talk about the church, the church are going to have to say it is in a very dangerous place
Simon Pinchbeck:immensely dangerous when you've you know, you've only got to look at some Catholic churches and and other churches where they've got you know, they worship married and they Yeah, which is an I call it the Queen of Heaven which is Yeah, another another pagan another pagan roots, you know, because the devil the enemy always sematext Any and he has his own faults Trinity as well. So, so yeah, you've got we got to be awful, awfully careful. But this thing, Ben, this saying this little prayer and thinking you're one time saved, you know, you use a daily, it's a daily thing. It's a daily thing, where? Well, let me put it like this, if I may, the people often really they've written books on your purpose. What is your purpose? What is your purpose in life? What is your your purpose? What is your purpose? Yeah, well, the purpose of each and every person that God created, is to become more of an image of Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm a slave to write daily. I'm a servant. We have to be daily.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes, getting more like Christ, Christ. Purpose, because God loves us so much. He wants us. He wants us to, to be in the image of His Son Jesus Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. That's correct. So the role model, I don't even like to use the word role model. The one that I look to, is Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, the you know, the error he represents Well, we owe him every for everything.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Why do we owe that? Because he redeemed us,
Simon Pinchbeck:He redeemed us Erie dentures, we ransomed his own life. You know, it says, Cursed is anyone it says Christ as in Galatians. It says, Christ, as redeemed us from the curse of law, having become a curse for us. So he's become a curse for us. So Ben, this is it. God loved the world so much that He gave us his only son. It gave us His only Son imagine doing that given and for He died for our sin.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He Yes, he really died for our sin for our iniquities, transgressions, a whole lot, the whole shebang.
Simon Pinchbeck:It died for our sin, our sin put him on a cross He died for our sins. He rose again to accept us to save us if we accepted.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't it interesting that that what? Well, I'd say it's interesting because Simon's just triggered a thought pattern. Christ died for us. It wasn't the church that put him on the cross. It wasn't Pilate. It wasn't Herod, it was actually the Scripture. The scripture was fulfilled. So when you look at what was happening at the crucifixion, it was written about, it was prophesied about. God spoke the crucifixion into being. It wasn't the power of the soldiers. It wasn't the free now that kept him on the cross. It wasn't them. Then people that audience, the pilots to Herod, the soldiers, the one that beat Christ in the in, in the courtyard, the high priests, they had no power over him whatsoever. And how do you know that then? Because the Scripture says when Herod and Pilate and my mind escaped him at this second, because just so much going on, I believe it was Harriet Tubman that might have to correct me, but I'll find out, it was either Harold a pilot, and one of them said, I have the power to either crucify you and to or to free you. And Jesus looked him in the eyes and said, You have no power or authority over me. But only because it has been given from above. So the crucifixion, redemption has come into being because God put it into position, it
Simon Pinchbeck:put it into position. And that if you think of it like that, and I think I think that you come up with a real good, they have been, you know, because if you think of a bit like that, that God put it in into position. Then Jesus the night before he died, when he got when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane when he came back, and we've said it many times and he said, he said,
Reverend Ben Cooper:take this cup away from you've got it come on Simon,
Simon Pinchbeck:yet not my will, but Your will be done. So we know will the news so will a father
Reverend Ben Cooper:was for his son to die. Yeah. So it wasn't the strength of the audience. It wasn't the pilot and the Herod, it wasn't necessarily soldiers that was beating him and dragging him. God wrote that. God allowed that to happen. So the church at the moment, I'm going to be careful are present my words. We need to be careful, because he's not a God that will be marked. He's a jealous God. He's a God of rough. He's a God of anger, and judgment. And if certain areas of church regarding so many things thinks that it can manipulate the Scripture, when God put redemption into being, actually who is redeemed so how can the sinners prayer, have any forbearance on salvation? No, it can't. It can't. It can't bend no human lips can? No it's because it's already been predestined. Let me read lamentations.
Simon Pinchbeck:Lamentation does that who even in the
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lamentations chapter three verses 57. I can actually pronounce it and I live in Swan. I can pronounce lemon tations. God's put it in your mouth. The Lord is good to swan. Right verse 757, sorry, of Chapter Three of Lamentations. You come near, when I call you. Now this is really important. Man has no power to receive the living God. Christ has to present himself to humanity before the human being suddenly realizes I've got to believe. So before we say, I believe in Jesus, he already prepared the stony ground the heart, he prepared he has presented Himself to you and to me, so no one can resist salvation. And it says in limitations, chapter three, verse 57, you come near to me when I called you, and you said, do not fear. It says, You Lord took up my case. You redeemed my life. God calls everyone. God speaks to everyone that come and also we have to mention because this is scripture. Not everyone will receive salvation. It's quite a bleak. Look, isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:It will dissent. The saddest thing about that is Ben, is that if you've been told that by saying that little prayer,
Reverend Ben Cooper:they've made it, you've made it, then it puts a lie and it puts the strength on you, because you're the one that can go now. It's impossible for a human being, of of Earth form, to resist a supernatural God. If I I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. And he is stretching out in the universe and he's before time. How dare me think that I can go? I'm not going to receive you, Jesus. My lips are stronger.
Simon Pinchbeck:But even worse than that, I think is if you go the other way and go, Oh, yeah, I don't want to go to that far replace. I'll say that little prayer at the last knockings or say it, I'll say it anyway. And now I'm saved and I can carry on living out I want to be because you just the way you've just explained to me, Jesus is love. He accepts every one price. You're given me an insurance policy. Yeah, I'm gonna just kind of say that little prayer. And I can carry on doing what I do. But, you know, the Scriptures are clear, you know, in color. In one Corinthians, it says, For you are bought with a price. He says, Therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. So all of a sudden I shift from, you know, to get salvation, Ben, you've gone from being a son of the world, to a son of God. Amen. Right. And that pulls you out of the world. And as we've quite rightly said, in the scriptures, you should not be living that life. Now. It doesn't happen all at once. But if if, if you're working every day to give a little bit more of the old back, yeah, except a little bit more a Jesus. Amen. That's what that's the journey of Christianity journey.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It reminds wretched man, am I yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:it reminds me Ben of that right parable that Jesus said, where a farmer came in, he had two sons. And he said to one, you come and work with me a day. And the son said, Yeah, I'll be their father. And he said to the other one, will you come with me? And the other one said, No, I'm not bothered. I'm not bothered. And then the first one thought, now I'm not going to the second one. I'll better go yeah. That then, you know, it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:exactly the same as that. Let me let me read you a little scripture from a really happy text Job, chapter 19. Don't go near that book, job 925 and 26. It says, I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end, he will stand on the earth. This is job speaking this before Christ came into being when you think what what this man went through what he had stripped back and he said, Oh, that he slayed me, I will still praise Him. Now Job is saying this now this is a few 100 years before Christ comes to the earth. So when he says he will, he will stand on the earth. This is a really powerful text, because what Job is saying? He is saying that there will be someone in physical form that will stand because God has now hold hold your thoughts a minute everyone. When I say God has no physical form, in his Godhead, He has no physical form. But in Galatians, he says Christ is the image of the invisible God. So when Job mentions this text in Job chapter 19, verse 25, to 26. I know that my Redeemer lives, right, so if he knows his Redeemer lives, who is he pointing to? He's talking about God. So I know my redeemer lives, and that in the end, he will stand on the earth. So Jobe is speaking very powerful, powerfully, and very prophetically, about God, and God becoming Christ. Because he says he will stand. You can only stand if you've got legs. Now, this is really deep, but he says he will stand on the, I'm losing myself with this. And this, and then this, this, this makes me shudder verse 26, of Jobe, chapter 19, after my skin has been destroyed, we put so much weight on the flesh and asked me after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh, I will see this God, I got a die to my skin. Job is quoting text that hasn't even come into being your Redeemer saved you before your skin even was breathed into being you were saved before the foundation of the world. I formed you in your mother's womb, I knew you. The psalmist writes so powerfully where he says, what God says he's got, but I'm going to paraphrase a bit here and I can't pinpoint the text. I'll have a look in a moment. But God says, before you even spoke your words, I knew the way you were going to tread before your actions came into being. I knew which path you were taking Read, you can't run,
Simon Pinchbeck:no, you can't, you can't do anything. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:can't you can't escape pinnacle. If I die, I face him. If I live, I face him. The Scripture says in Psalms, if I was to die and to go to the lowest place of the Earth, you'll be there. If I was to, to ascend to the highest heavens, across the universe, you will be there. If I go to the northeast of the South, you will will will be there, I cannot escape what the psalmist says, Your presence.
Simon Pinchbeck:You can't escape the presence of the Lord been and he's redeemed you Simon has redeemed does, yeah. And he's retained every single one of us. But it's our choice whether or not we still accept him. Or we say no, we still is still a choice. And so, you know, we've really outlawed the little prayer that the little salvation prayer, so what do we have to do to be saved? Well, it's,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's quite, it's quite a deep tech, quite a deep conversation we're in because we could talk about this literally for eternity. Because when it says whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I can only call when he has come. Because what it says is, while I was still sinning, he saved me in my darkest hour, when I was in. Now, when I was in my darkest place, I wasn't thinking about God. So God comes in and rescues. So God rescues the human heart. God rescues the human soul.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think I think you said it there. I don't think it's the heart thing isn't it is a highly, definitely a heart thing. I mean, everything is a hard thing. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:you saw it, Simon. Yep. Got it. Right. Quiet.
Simon Pinchbeck:We have to, yes, we have to confess we have to realize that we've gone astray we have sinned, we've done wrong against Almighty God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that's after he presents himself to us. So that's a soul soul moment on the road to Damascus. Because Saul wasn't interested in following God he Well, there
Simon Pinchbeck:has to be a revelation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:God. Yes. That yes, we are is revealed.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes. And then. And then not only do we have to say, Father, you know, forgive me, I'm a I'm a I'm a sinner. This is what I've done. We have to do go further in that, don't we?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what does revelation do Revelation reveals? What does it reveal? It reveals God and it reveals a wretched man and my why do I do the things I hate on why do I do the things? I can't do? What Why do I do the things that God wants me to do? So Paul writes very clearly designate a wretched man, am I
Simon Pinchbeck:so there has to be repentance when on when's repentance happening? Well, repentance happens every every single hour. Yeah, it really is a lifelong experience. We completely because quite rightly, as you said that the Romans seven Christian in us, yeah, keep going back and doing the same thing. So but so we have to daily repent on a daily basis. And Father, I want to just take a little more step to you. Forgive me for another give you that I don't want to stay the same. Because what's the reward then? Oh, what's the reward? Listen to this. Listen to this one. Firing in two Corinthians, Ben. He says, Now I have seen or no errors heard, nor have entered into the heart of man, those things which God has prepared for those who love Him. So there has to be a loved one. It can't just be
Reverend Ben Cooper:a cold, cold recital prayer. No, it has to be a love set. So right let's try and get a bit more of an understanding on this. So religion is in the head. Yeah, really salvation and the love of God is in the heart. It drops down to the heart and it drops down. But religion it can't drop down because religion is controlling religion is every denomination and every denomination is saying, We are the church and you're not
Simon Pinchbeck:asked to come a point when each of us have to go through that garden
Reverend Ben Cooper:because so many stripped me back Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Each year was up to get on our knees on our face and a strong
Reverend Ben Cooper:Jesus Father,
Simon Pinchbeck:not not my will but your will be done. Take Take this life take it Have I
Reverend Ben Cooper:got the gonads to say Lord stripped me back. I've I seriously gave you advice seriously. We can use all the religious language we can use all the religious straplines But I've I really got the David Beckham's to go God you Got a strip me back because this me, this me is not good me. But then God goes, but I love you. I created I know your character. And so it's apps turned upside down Upside
Simon Pinchbeck:down straightaway completely turned upside down because
Reverend Ben Cooper:I didn't rescue you when you was holy because Ben you'll never be holy,
Simon Pinchbeck:no, you're on your knees, you're on your knees saying, Lord, I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy. That
Reverend Ben Cooper:God sign as my son, I love you, my prodigal son, he's coming home. And that's the Father's arms are always out
Simon Pinchbeck:the fact that you've actually done that and opened your heart and said, Father, you know, forgive me, I'm your son, forgive
Reverend Ben Cooper:me. Believe and confess. Believe and confess
Simon Pinchbeck:I was outside. I think I mentioned before, but I was outside of prison. Not too far away from here. Usually you're in. And I was going to speak to the inmates on a Sunday morning and I haven't had a good week. You know, I've been all over the place spiritually and off center father, I just don't I'm not in a good place for this today. I'm not right for this today. And and I just felt he come back and in my spirit, you said, When have you ever been right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because it's the truth. It's the truth. I was broke to your spirit. Simon,
Simon Pinchbeck:when have you ever been right? Whenever you have been right, and is a fellow I spoke I spoke a couple of weeks ago in Colchester and a fella said, Sam, do you ever think you can be fully sanctified fully? The answer's no. The answers no, ben init.
Reverend Ben Cooper:i cant even spell the word, let alone get to it.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because there's always another level
Reverend Ben Cooper:pick up your cross topic out once No. daily, hourly. Secondly, momently. Now counselors, people in the world Walker will look at this and go, you're off your trolley. You're because motivational and the world will tell you you're great. You're wonderful. You are beautiful. You are handsome. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, you can do it. You're an achiever you are when actually it's creating a vacuum inside of everyone. Because there's no fulfillment in material possessions. The fulfillment is is in redemption and the Redeemer and the blood of Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:And yeah, totally see, we were not made to worship ourselves, ourselves. And we were not working right. I was, we will not write anybody else to worship us. And we were not made to worship anybody else apart from God, the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what are we ?
Simon Pinchbeck:Jesus Christ
Reverend Ben Cooper:Simon has said another word, we are worshippers, worshipers of who? worshippers of spirit and in truth, the Scripture says, When you come to worship Me, you worship in spirit and in truth, what spirit, what truth, there is only one truth. There are many spirits. But I can worship in many spirits, and you go to different ministries and churches, you'll be worshiping in the Kundalini spirit. And before you know it, you're the pastor, we're giving you a dog biscuit, because you'd be barking. You know, there are certain spirits that you got to be careful of your, your body is the gateway. But what I've got to remember is very clearly unsaved you say so are not a gateway in that aspect. Because greater is He that is me than he that is in the world.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And you are redeemed, you've been redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, what it took for him, to redeem you. We have to remember we have to take take very, very seriously we are everything with Christ and nothing without him. And when the Scripture says, I can do all things through Christ, that's what it means. Oh, I thought all things through Christ because Christ is now I have in in me,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Christ is living in me. I'm redeemed on redeem you've been he saved me. He washed me. He cleanse he, he, he.
Simon Pinchbeck:So it's more than just a little prayer. It's more than just Simon putting your hands up and walking down the front. It's more than all that because he redoes it's all way. It's a complete, you're a citizen now of the kingdom of God. How can
Reverend Ben Cooper:these lips How can my voice box How can I have the power over this eternal God? It's impossible, isn't it? Look at Jonah. You're gonna get and do what I've called you to do. Jonah. Jonah thought that in his full strength, he could run and run and run. Humanity can't run from God. There's coming a time when there's going to be I will use a word collision, because it's the easiest way to describe it. When the earthly body is going to meet the eternal God and that's what happened. So, so on the road to a Mayas, sorry, to Damascus, the Emmaus road was with the two guys that was walking with Christ that had their eyes hidden from the Messiah. So, so when God, God and Paul, they're two worlds collided, let's pull it like that, the spiritual world that the God of all came, and he visited Paul, and he said, Paul, Paul, why do you persecute me is coming a point, when the church is really going to collide with the Holy God, there's coming a point when the church will fall on its face and suddenly realize the acting. And the showmanship has no eternal value. There's coming judgment, judgment is coming. The sword is coming to the church.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the thing is, you know, we, we look at the world and go Jesus, come back, you know, and he'll be coming back he's not coming back to save, he's coming back to, to judge in it to divide. And then on that day, you know, every knee will bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ His door, but you know, just want to maybe finish Yeah, we've spent is that I, when I made I made the decision to accept Jesus Christ into my life, to be the look, but to be my Lord and Savior. Well, I said a prayer, I said a prayer with Nicky Gumbel down at Trinity Brompton, but it took months for the realization for that to happen. And what I'd say really, is that what happens is when people are being led in this prayer, but there's no follow up. There's no one coming around or putting their arm around, no one, walking with them from that moment in time saying, You're in a bad start, but this is what it means. This is what it means, you know, one, giving a full gospel presentation about death and life about sin and repentance. Yeah. Acceptance about love through that. There's no one coming around, you will not then adapted into a embraced into a family where where people are walking with you and showing you discipling you. You see, Jesus said, He didn't say, go out into the world and Mike Mike converts. Then he said go out into the world and make disciples. Yes. So what we're doing is we're making converts, to sit in churches, to sit on sites, to tithe to churches. We're making we're not making disciples
Reverend Ben Cooper:cotton wool Christianity.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's a different Jesus man. Yeah, it's a different Jesus. If you see some of the the prosperity stuff that goes on, in shameful it's shameful. And it will say we believe that if you said that prayer, your your You're lame is written in the Lamb's book of law. It's it's not. It's leading people down a wrong, the wide route the wide road when Jesus said, it's very hard because the narrow road is very narrow.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The Psalmist says this, 111 verse nine, He sent redemption unto his people, he sent it, we are redeemed because of him. And as Simon said, there's a narrow path following Jesus. The church is on the wide. I'm afraid to say that, that there needs there needs to be a almost a a move within the church where, where brothers and sisters are going to stand up on go, I'm not having this no more. I'm not going to come under this. This treacle, this, this, this? This, this preaching that is given me a license to live and to live in a in a vile mess. I need I need to know that my Redeemer lives I need to know because I'm a sinful man. And you know what? The more I tell myself I'm sinful and the more freer I get, because I'm speaking everything out and exposing everything and when everything is exposed, the devil can't work.
Simon Pinchbeck:There we go. That's
Reverend Ben Cooper:We're in.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's redemption. That's redemption you will be bought with a price. But not just to say a little prayer and run to the front is frightening, isn't it? You've been bought with a price to be accepted into the kingdom. of God to be a citizen of the kingdom to love and be loved Christ and to die for us to live.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's it. He summed it up, even listened to Simon Pinchbeck and myself, Reverend Ben Cooper, the redeemed of the Lord. Do you know the your Redeemer lives and because he lives you can face tomorrow. Psalm 119, verse nine, He sent redemption unto his people. He sent it, he saved us. Nothing to do with religion on a church, all because of Christ. You've been listening to#Christian straight talk, you can find us in many social platforms. And please just share anything that comes out. Any feedback, we really would value your feedback. Have a great day remembering where we are. We're at the passing over the blood will be a sign or you're washed in the blood of Jesus. God bless in Jesus name, Amen.
