Please join Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck as they look at the title the Jesus story, as they look in the New Testament as well as the old Testament, looking at the man Christ Jesus, the king if kings and the Lord of Lords, also discussing the early years of Jesus living at home in the family unit.
Please join Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon Pinchbeck as they look at the title the Jesus story, as they look in the New Testament as well as the old Testament, looking at the man Christ Jesus, the king if kings and the Lord of Lords, also discussing the early years of Jesus living at home in the family unit.
Good morning. We're in. We're in the house of the Lord the Lord has let us in the Lord is that the church has rejected us but Jesus has led us in the building. It's#Christian Straight Talk wherever you are across the world, whatever your timezone is today we thank you so much for joining Simon and myself as we gather across the mics. And wherever you are, God is with you. We are say all the time when I've, whenever we're online or whatever, we are really living in really powerful times. The glory of God is shining across this earth, the world is his buckling under the weight of what is coming its way you know, but God is for you. Do you know that you saved the you know that you're a believer? Where do you sit in this world? God is with you. But we're going to look at a story this morning. It's the greatest story that has ever been told. Simon, what is that story?
Simon Pinchbeck:Better look at the story of Jesus. And realize some powerful things you was you were mentioned in there. But I saw back a minute. Is the man fully man fully God is the man that you can lead us through all that. It can lead us through all of that nonsense. And yeah, ya know, so he's got such an amazing story. We're going to struggle to get it all in in the 4045 minutes that we've got this morning. But we'll we'll pull out some decent points. But it's great to be with you back again across the mics. It's been a really interesting week. Yeah, I would err in Essex where I come from. And, you know, it's great to be back in God's country in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, the Lord is in Swanley. Thank you, Jesus is alive and well. And pushing his shopping all the way down from aldi
Simon Pinchbeck:You know, the, you know, the Lord was to come back right now, it'd be walking around in places like swarming money. 100% I was, you know, I wouldn't be walking around and in some of the other areas, but it'd be talking and showing love and compassion and yeah, and talking to the right people who were you know, come on, displaced aster and whatever, you know, Royal COEs. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wally trawling. I've just typed in before I'm gonna jump in jump on the Simon. Before he quickly says it. I've just typed in Jesus, right in the Google search engines. You know what's come up the football players. Now before Yeah, look, look at the iPad. I've just typed in Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Wow, are you so stay calling tonight? Yeah, calling Jesus. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't it interesting that the scripture says that there's many Jesus's but there's only one king? Yeah. When you really when you think where we sit in the time soon as you say the school kids, anyone have a certain generation who's Jesus Easter eat at Tottenham, but he's that player and he's the Easter footballer, is he? You know, so this is conversation not around the King of kings and the Lord of lords. But around, isn't it interesting that where we sit in the end times, that there are idols being made, that carry certain aspects of life that are really meaningless. So when you type in Jesus on a Jesus, whatever I'll get, I'll get a foot. I'll get a football star. Yeah, when actually, I'm gonna die. Who's kind of helped me?
Simon Pinchbeck:It's interesting. You say that what you said there. And then before we get into the meat of this, you know, I read a quote the other day from someone who was a godly man, I forget who it was, he said. He said, Wouldn't it be a tragedy if you spent your life being a success at something that don't matter? Exactly, yeah. So, so if you strive all your life to be a success at something that really matter is meaningless. You know, imagine imagine going up to heaven and, and the Lord's there. And what did you What did you do? Oh, I was the governor of the Bank of England. Oh, sorry.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What did you do? Wow,
Simon Pinchbeck:we've never seen one of them. And I was a lawyer. I was a I was a defense lawyer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I was a superstar. I was a I was an I was a I was a former. I'll teach you work in a church. Now I worked in Hollywood. Well, yeah, that's what I mean. So Jesus, yeah, this word, this chord here makes your way on present is not very good. You know, Jesus, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. And the scripture says that, that God gave him the name above every other night. I'm at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. Isn't it interesting? What happens through idol worship through the stars these? And there's a few called Jesus. Humanity bows down to them.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, it does. And we've, we've done a chapter in our Christian staight talk book on men's talk and the perception of Jesus, which is really interesting, because you will find his name being used more and more as a curse word that's. And every new movie that comes out every documentary ever, every every series. It's used as a curse word and exclamation or whatever, isn't it? Yeah. So that's where we are at the moment. And it's not getting easier. It's not getting any no one's standing up and calling it profanity, which was what is it? You know, certainly, I shall not take the Lord, knowing God's name in vain, you know, so there's a real danger around all that, but that you know, the true Jesus is what we're talking about today. If you look in the Gospel of John, right at the start, Ben what does it say?
Reverend Ben Cooper:playing for Tottenham, oh, sorry, sorry, wrong Bible. Sorry, wrong Bible, that God got me serious Come on. Because we'll make it really clear that in the beginning, in the beginning, in the beginning, so if you just take that first line in the beginning, straight away, we have creation, who do we find at the beginning? The word in the beginning was the Word and the Word was we've gotten the Word was God, is it about verse 49, we've got the scripture in front of me, it says, John said, And the Word became flesh, very interesting that the Word became, and not the word birth, because he was always in existence to become, you're already here. So he just chose the vehicle of Mary, to present himself to humanity. So he was already in the beginning. But suddenly, the Word became flesh. And in the book of Colossians, I believe it is very clear runabout chapter one, it says, Christ is the image of the invisible God,
Simon Pinchbeck:you're right. You're bang on. Yeah. Colossians 115. Yeah, he's the image of the invisible,
Reverend Ben Cooper:invisible God, we understand that Christ is the image of the invisible God, but also, in that theological language that's out there. He is also God.
Simon Pinchbeck:And so we'll have a look at that. And so that's a lot of people find it difficult to get,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's very difficult to grasp, right. And so like, you know,
Simon Pinchbeck:so he was born, he was born and he was born, he wasn't, you know, he was, it was an immaculate conception, which means there was no physical interaction for him to be born and he had to be born of a virgin. Why? Because, because of what his destiny was gonna be, because he was a perfect man. And, you know, he was he was brought up as in with Mary and Joseph in the household, and we don't read a lot about that, do we? And we certainly don't read a lot about the time when he was a carpenter, because he, you know, when you look at that, when you look at it is spent 30 years Stinney you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:in a household of brothers, mom and dad, he was displaced, because you can imagine the tongues would have spoke that Jesus you know, that Jesus did is he really Josephs is so you can imagine where he was, from what what happened and all the conversation that was going on. So here we have the King of kings, the creator of Heaven on Earth, being birthed into a society that rejected him straightaway. Imagine being his brothers, when his brothers actually realized who he really was. I gave him a 91 day. Oh my god, I wrestled with GE. Oh my God, because this would have happened they will fold and fold together, but grown up together.
Simon Pinchbeck:He was when I was the perfect person. So he could never been naughty. Could he? So you know, you probably was he didn't get a backhand from his dad or you know, is whatever you don't know we don't know that do it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But being being a young man, being a young man brought up in in that culture in that society, but the Bible says you've gone through every temptation is gone through everything. So he must have experienced sibling re rivalry and all that sort of stuff and different stuff. So when you look at Jesus, the perfect man, the perfect King, the perfect Son, perfection wrapped up in this skin that we know of Christ Jesus, perfect the living word, the all Korea everything. If we could see Jesus NOW is
Simon Pinchbeck:God is God is gone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:When you Look at this, this sign of
Simon Pinchbeck:spirit. Yeah, yeah. So interesting because we was just rambling and talking a bit before we got into this. And you were saying, weren't you? And you made a really good point that the church, oh, we mentioned the church.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That word, study word,
Simon Pinchbeck:the church, just clambers and after youth workers, yes, youth workers who have never experienced anything of life, none right. And they want to pay them a wage to teach the children but they've never experienced anything like Jesus. Yes. Jump into ministry at 19. Did he
Reverend Ben Cooper:not even at 1617 3033 years, when you look at the biblical stretch, his ministry was only three years. There wasn't an advert in the paper for him was they were looking for a youth worker with pay your 25 grand he didn't write a book do they didn't write a book, he didn't wear skinny jeans, you know, he didn't know. So when you when you look at this when you look at so who do I look to? I always look to Jesus. Can we say he's our role model? Can we use that that type of terminology and he's my God, he's my king. He's the great I AM. So I look to Him. So even in ministry, so Christ when his ministry began ran about when he was about 30. That wasn't the age of these, the the youth pastors and normally retiring at 2930 They've done it and oh, yeah, they've been there. Done it.
Simon Pinchbeck:Looks. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:they finished, I'm done. I'm out. I'm gone.
Simon Pinchbeck:Juice ministry never started till he was 30. Just over
Reverend Ben Cooper:30. So when you look at that, so he that that is the pattern that
Simon Pinchbeck:only been a carpet had been a tradesman. You've gone to work and
Reverend Ben Cooper:attending a youth pastor to go to work
Simon Pinchbeck:imagine. Mind your roof. Oh, my God called Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You need to get out now. He was just he was just offering
Simon Pinchbeck:the best roof I've ever left.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Any just spoke and tiles come and information that we just spoke and just trees cut themselves in half. He didn't have a sore in his pocket
Simon Pinchbeck:at that table called Jesus. He spoke it. Wow. But that's the stat that so he was trying
Reverend Ben Cooper:to work as a carpenter. He worked with his dad. He was a tradesman. He was taught a skill. But if you look at the majority of youth pastors, they have been taken from the crib too early, the Moses basket out of the reeds and put into a pulpit before they've even been fed milk. That's a
Simon Pinchbeck:great point. So, so great point and Ben and then after that, we they will probably transition into being a church leader or you know, whatever, but they've had no experience of
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, they haven't, they've had no light, so wet. So when you look at the life of Christ, the early life of Christ, he went to work. He was a tradesman. He, he used his physical body, he got up, he had his breakfast, he went to work. He, he lived in a household. He had brothers, he was trade. He was trained, sorry, as a as a tradesman. He knew what it was like to work in all aspects of whether he he was a worker. He was a worker, he went to work.
Simon Pinchbeck:He was a blue collar worker. Yeah, definitely. And so he used his hands, and he would have experienced everything, everything and people. You know, were they look down on them or whatever they did, but he had to go through all of that. But you know, they and this is the man right? This is a man who the destiny of the whole world
Reverend Ben Cooper:was on was not. This is the one that was at Genesis chapter one. Can we believe it? Can you try? Can you believe it? When you actually put this together when you study Christ? Look at his early life is early life before ministry, what you went through, imagine that Jesus bring your washing down. Well, yeah. He, he lived in a house, he lived in a normal house. You know, you can imagine, you know, breakfast, tea time, lunchtime, all that. There is nothing that he hasn't experienced. He has experienced everything. The Bible makes it very clear. And what I love about the Scripture is that his ministry didn't start until he was at that right age. So there is a really important part to ministry and leaders that the ministry you might have the colon, you might have an anointing, you might have a drawing, but that you have to wait see, Jesus only moved when God said now it's time so so we got so much in this Jesus story. Oh,
Simon Pinchbeck:yeah. because he only, he only did what a father told him. Yeah. So that fully connected to the father at all times.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So he's minister and he started. So we don't know. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:he must have took himself Oh, quiet time with his father, you know, and then got on with his job and all the time he was being connected to
Reverend Ben Cooper:Tommy went missing, that Tommy went missing. Where was he was found in his father's house,
Simon Pinchbeck:you we don't know the people that he ministered to, or spoke to? Or that for years Imagine,
Reverend Ben Cooper:imagine following Jesus. And as he said, Look, there's if I wrote if everything was written down, there's not enough books, there's not enough paper, you can't record record everything that has gone on. But what is fascinating is the life of Jesus, Jesus, his story to me before his ministry really began is him growing up as a young man, a tradesman, you know, living with his brothers going through the seasons of life going through adulthood.
Simon Pinchbeck:And here's a deal when you imagine
Reverend Ben Cooper:he lived at home when he was 30. Look at now kids, they're trying to get mortgages. They're trying to do this trying to do that. But look
Simon Pinchbeck:at this. If he was a young man, say, young teenager, like barely 20. Yeah. And fishermen will just looked at him and gone. On your bike might know what he was, you could tell by his hands, who's a worker, you could tell by his demeanor, he was he was he knew how to speak to these babies. And they looked at him. Yeah. If he was a teenager. So why it's such an interesting question. Why is the church putting so much standing in young, teenage, early 20s people to be youth leaders, when they've had absolutely no experience? And why are parents and trusting their children to these youth leaders, when they probably don't even know what's going on now in the youth group. It's an interesting real interest because I've spoken and people around me up can you come and speak at our youth group? Of course, always a great youth leader. You know, you walk in there and it's chaos. It's can all the parents have done that dumping their kids for a couple of hours a babysitting, babysitting service, and they get Oh, no
Reverend Ben Cooper:solar church? I won't say all the church. I'll say a mass percentage of the church within the UK has created a babysitting service. This kindergarten
Simon Pinchbeck:and this got always such a I can't see it. I'm sorry. I can't see it. Because no one's no one's sitting down. Oh, we come to this great. We've got a great youth group going on in this
Reverend Ben Cooper:church. A playing snooker playing darts is worst game in play
Simon Pinchbeck:and rap music on the rap. Yes. So loud.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but can't remember someone. I've done a show last week or week before that so many conversations with people they said it's quite interesting what I what I've done here that I scrubbed all the youth ministry away, stripped everything back because I felt God was saying just just bring everybody under the same sound of the gospel, just preach the gospel. And since we've been doing that, we've had parents actually coming to us and saying, You know what, my children have been asking questions about what you've been seminars and what you've been talking about. And it's quite interesting. They haven't they haven't picked up their iPad they've been sitting still listening to what is being delivered from the pulpit. So we are living in a time when children need the word of God because they're going to school and they are getting you can be any gender, you can be anything you want to do. And they're not getting Jesus the only Jesus they get is the football law
Simon Pinchbeck:of Christianity is just a number of legend, isn't it? You know, but, you know, my I've got my big Tony up in Barnet, and I've got a good church that's going on out there. And he's in his 40s Tony, and he's got a garden in business and he's he's seen life completely goals. Yeah. And easily you've laid it out there. And he sits him down and he tells him about life. Yeah, and they give just gives it to him straight. It you know, and they come in there with really grounded knowledge. But if you're just a young
Reverend Ben Cooper:if you're if you're coming out the Moses boss, in a moses basket, you've got no look when, when, when, when that great prophet of God anointed anointed. The king of Israel, David, David went back to the wilderness for a long time. He didn't go into youth ministry. He was anointed and he was sent back. It's the same with Christ. Christ was called Christ is a living word, but he had to live. He had to live then he had to die. But he was still anointed.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's a great point you've made. And you know, you make great points all the time, but that you might. Because Paul, when Paul go once he had his conversion,
Reverend Ben Cooper:where did he go? I wonder where he went.
Simon Pinchbeck:He went to Arabia, then he went to Arabia for three or four years, just to get them that so insular knowledge, so here, he was fully immersed in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So. So what we have we have an issue. So when you look at Christ, the story of Christ, the story of Christ opens up so much we have creation, we have the birth to death to resurrection, and also we have eschatology, we have the power of the Word of God. So when we talk about the story of Jesus,
Simon Pinchbeck:I can't believe it was 20 minutes. 20 minutes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is too big. The story of Jesus is too big because when you say, Jesus, so what is a he's the creator of the of the heavens and the earth. Well, he's the king of above all kings. He's, he's the great I AM. He's, he's the air that we breathe. He's the first he's the last I
Simon Pinchbeck:totally what we should do. We should play that. Dr. Lockridge, you know, Oh, that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:fantastic.
Simon Pinchbeck:He's my king. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I know that. You know, we
Simon Pinchbeck:can we play that? Because my might be I get out of that. Yeah. Later on. Yeah. Well, well, before we just before we go, because I'll try
Reverend Ben Cooper:and we'll try and do something or even next week or something, I'll have it ready to go next week. Because that when you when you said, let's look at the Jesus story, and we said 45 minutes straight away, we're going, we're lying already. Because it's taken 6000 years for the show, we're not even saying not even off the bat, we're only talking you can't, you will all you could do a whole life study on JESUS, and you will never come to the full stop. And go we got him wrapped up because he's the beginning of time. He created the solar system, he created the heavens and the earth, because as Simon said, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh. So he is all creation.
Simon Pinchbeck:So when people aren't they just really makes me smile and annoys me at the same time and people say, is it time to jettison the Old Testament? Oh, no, no, because Jesus isn't on every page because he's the word as a word. He's every page and everything in the Old Testament they did
Reverend Ben Cooper:to the to the know, and what we got amongst all this, the cross, are we. So you've got everything about the Redeemer? He's the one that went to the cross. He's the Savior. He's, he's, he's an obedience, he's, he's, he is complete, obedient to the Father's will. He is the great I Am Jesus Christ is the King above all kings. The story of Jesus
Simon Pinchbeck:is the salvation and, and he's the leader of the to the Father, you know, it's you just, we owe him everything. We're absolutely by we owe him everything. So Rosa overdue sitting with us, right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:He's sitting with us right now he's with you. Wherever you are across the world, Christ is with you. Christ Saved you Christ stretched out from the heavens above, when you was in your darkest hour of need, and God sent His Son to die upon the cross. He's the Redeemer of the world, he's your Savior.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you've accepted Him as your Lord and Savior, you're never without him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:This is enormous. Ly that thing that some states will will make a real serious effort and get that in. Well,
Simon Pinchbeck:maybe we'll have to spread this podcast to sessions, because because
Reverend Ben Cooper:maybe free for but when you look at who is Jesus? How can you really I know we've got the scriptures to give us an indicator. But when you when you look at it, he's the light of the world is that he? He's the great I Am he's, he's God. He is. He is what I'm actually lost for words for the first time trying to work out trying to put into the human language,
Simon Pinchbeck:when it so Jesus in Matthew 16 is started his ministry he's got he's got the fishermen together. He's got the guys together. Yeah, he's got his apostles together. And he says, it says, in Matthew 16, verse 30, starts this when Jesus came into the region of sea Surya Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, who demands say that I am the Son of Man, who am I? So they said, Some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, others say Jeremiah or one of the prophets. And he said to them, But who do you say I am? And Simon Peter answered them and said, You are the Christ, the son of a living God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wrapped up we must just pressed up, because it's like so the screen tells us who he is. So when the Scripture tells us who he is, and we start talking about who he is, without any pressure, or without any hardship with the absolute ease of everything, the scriptures suddenly open up who Christ is. He is from Genesis to Revelation. He is the Son of God. He is the air that we breathe, he is the oxygen, he is the living word he is, he is the creator of heaven and earth.
Simon Pinchbeck:So when people say, Well, how can this carpenter suddenly be doing this? Well, the answer is, he's always been God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He's always been God's always been God, He, the reason that he has come to this world is to produce to show us through physical contact, that He is the Living God. You know, the spiritual was always here before the physical. So God was always here, God was always before because the Scripture tells us that very clear. And this is what I'm going to read from I didn't continue this, this scripture, and I'm going to read this in just its first diverse five of John chapter one, we had the first part it says, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Then it goes on to say in verse three of John chapter one, through Him, all things were made without him. Nothing that has been made in Him was life, and that life was the light of mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not over commit. He is the Creator. He is the God of Israel. He is the one they now to the cross, He is the King of the Jews. He is the king.
Simon Pinchbeck:So here's the deal when so if we believe that, and we do our due, we respond to him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And we obey, obey Him, and we follow Him. We walk with him, and I say, Lord, off out today, but you are the Savior of the world, and you are my Redeemer with the blood of Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:We talked about blood last week than we had been, and we talked about a cross, but we still know the story of Jesus still continues, doesn't got to and you're right. We, we love Him, we get to know Him for His word, because this word is the word to get to know him through the word, don't we?
Reverend Ben Cooper:He's the light that shines in the darkness. Isn't that interesting that, that, that He is the light that shines in the darkness. So he goes into the dark realms? You know, it's, it's so he is the Savior of the world. He is the light of the world. He goes in, and he is a rescuer. Oh, yeah. And he rescues because the Scripture says, God rescues
Simon Pinchbeck:and in doing rescuing us when it gives us mercy that we don't deserve
Reverend Ben Cooper:his unconditional favor. We don't deserve it. He riches and we were wretched as that wretched man. Yeah, that's right, as Paul said, and as that other disciple said, on the shoreline, or in the boat, I forget where he was. He said, away from me, Lord, I'm a sinful man, sinful man. Yeah. I love that. I love that. But Jesus didn't walk did a listen to him. He said, Come on. I know you are. But I'm your Redeemer. I'm your king. I'm your life
Simon Pinchbeck:because he was doing the will of the Father. And he was always in contact with a father. And for us to know the father, then we've got an arm through Jesus is the only way. So you use everything because he says in John 14, six in the arm, the way they live, and the truth, no one comes to the Father except through me,
Reverend Ben Cooper:except through me. Who's the May? I'm Jesus? Who is Jesus? on God? What who is God? The scripture gives us a real to understand who Jesus is to understand the Trinity, the deity. To get to get some form of understanding on this. God has to reveal it because it's too big for the human mind. And the concept and the processing of a human being. See Knowledge puffs up. See information is just information. But when we got information, and God breathes on the information that we have, it becomes revelation. So when God reveals His Word to us, it becomes like this holy dynamite that explodes within our hearts, and then suddenly, we have a massive download of the Word of God that we've been reading for so long. And I'm not never saying that the Word of God is just information because it is revelation, but when we read it, like everything we read, it is it is informing us about something. So God's word is informing us about what it is informing us about birth, death, resurrection, that the about the fivefold about the life of God, everything is it is giving me information. But that information needs the Holy Spirit to make it to be revelation. Yeah, that's the trick. So so but it's a supernatural book.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's a super This is lovely that cartoon he calls it a super book than it is a supernatural book
Reverend Ben Cooper:supernatural is the word of God. There's hope there's life.
Simon Pinchbeck:But who did? Who did Jesus say he was? Said, did he say he was the Good Shepherd. He says a lot of the world. World is a better life. He's a vine.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Righteous. This is what Isaiah says Isaiah 53. He grew out of it. Don't you just can't I just can't get enough of this Jesus. It says he grew up before him, like a tender shoot. And a like a dry ground. This is what I love. Right? He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him. Nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering and familiar with pain. So when you look at Christ, when you look at Christ, He wasn't like a youth leader. He wasn't dressed up and he wasn't theoretically birthed. It wasn't he wasn't manufactured. Within the church. We have the world as crossed over for many years. And we see this through the youth ministries ministries, because that they look the same. There is no different language between it there is no biblical language there is there is religious language, but there is no Jesus
Simon Pinchbeck:also, rather rather than having the the Spirit. Jesus shine out of you. Yeah. Which Yeah, man, that's a massive impact. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, they won't, I think attractive in your appearance, but was the manufacture they want someone that's got a lovely smile, white teeth, dresses, dress dresses, the way the world dresses, but Jesus, it says there was nothing about him. They had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him. What we have in Hillsong is what we have in a lot of ministries. There are attractive people in certain areas, you know, of course what we're saying, because the world uses sex to attract us into certain things. Everything is sexualized, advertising everything, the lust of the flesh. Do we know that there's lust in the flesh?
Simon Pinchbeck:Oh, look at a guy from Hillsong New York.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:Took a bit of a deep dive with. But he, like they named him pastor to the stars. And he just looked like he was rolled off to Hollywood. Yeah, it's like, Yeah, but what happened to him? He just, you know, see if Jesus was if Jesus was around a day, it'd be wearing you know, scruffy old chains, I guess? Well, because the screen is open to any Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Scripture makes it very clear. There was nothing in his appearance that was attractive.
Simon Pinchbeck:He'd be wearing like, you know, whatever the workers were when they do you know, because as per Revo boots and
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, he would, there was nothing about this and physicality. Probably actually, you're right, Simon. Yeah, he would have blended in to the tradesmen, he wouldn't have stood out as a model or any.
Simon Pinchbeck:And you know what, Ben? I'm not gonna be controversial here. Come on. And that's a surprise and it but is a little bit I don't want to see another picture of Jesus. No, because Jesus did the Jesus that they paint the wall and in reality, is he he's this sci fi Jesus, he's that that I want to throw at you that I want to say this. He's all about love. He's, he's all about you know, he's got his answer. Perfect. His hair is perfect. He looks no this is not the Jesus that
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, actually the Earth. This Jesus. Jesus that will follow.
Simon Pinchbeck:He'd roll up probably in these flat back you know, get out and measure up Oh, yeah. You know what? You want a table you want to use this certainly ever? Yeah, well, we'll get it sorted.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What I love about this, this scripture is it says the man, Christ Jesus. What is a man? A man right without all we could get in trouble here gender issues. When you talk about the man Christ Jesus. The reason that is that is scripturally so strong. because when you understand what a man is and what a man represents, it is not what the church portrays.
Simon Pinchbeck:No, man don't want to see another picture of Jesus. We're a little lamb. I don't want to see it. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the man Christ Jesus. So very interesting. It says that it mentions it once, the man Christ Jesus. Right, the Scripture says He was tempted in every way, shape, and form. And whatever way you want to look at that church, you might want to to take away the things that we're all thinking about, we won't talk about, he was tempted in all ways, because he was a man about fully God.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes, a man fully man, and fully God, sinless,
Reverend Ben Cooper:sinless, and without blemish.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you could imagine that you got a bunch of rough old boys as well, a new you know, these apostles, you know, fishermen, they were fishermen, they were rough up. So they had imagined, you know, it was in this look at the
Reverend Ben Cooper:sands of thunder, the nickname that they had the sons of fun or what I call the Sons of Thunder, because the air was blown.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, because if it was in this day and age, they'd be dropping an F bomb here and there one,
Reverend Ben Cooper:all day long. Hello, my child. How are you today? Wonderful. Bless you, my son. I've just tracked my hand between two boats. Praise the Lord hallelujah. God is with you. You can imagine what was going on?
Simon Pinchbeck:I've just stubbed my toe. Oh, dear.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, dear. Okay, James,
Simon Pinchbeck:I've just hit my hand with a hammer. Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, golly, gosh, we're so sorry. No,
Simon Pinchbeck:this is this is we got to be real me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that script, this is
Simon Pinchbeck:where the church falls down. Because it's not portraying a Jesus that the ordinary man in Christ Jesus is not portraying him as he was killed, the ordinary man in the street can't relate
Reverend Ben Cooper:can relate to the religious one to the religious one that you're trying to give him? Because when you look, it's like the saints, isn't it? It's like the ones that the apostles that we read about the church and religion of putting them in stained glass windows high up, and they're, they're all walking around, and you look at them and think I can't get near them. But when you look at Paul, when you look at the fishermen, when you look at all what they what the Church calls the saints, they were men, men that was anointed by Christ.
Simon Pinchbeck:What was revealed to us today is that the church in general, ain't talking about the 30 years that Jesus spent as a carpenter out I
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, and living in the house with his brothers. No, and the neighbors talking about them.
Simon Pinchbeck:No, we're not talking about that stuff. Because to get to know Him, we need to know about we need to have some sort of idea because then when we know that, it makes the fact that he was fully God, even, even, fully God, even greater than than what we ever thought,
Reverend Ben Cooper:when you think would look just staying in John chapter one, it says in the beginning. So the what does that actually mean? The beginning of time before the world even in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with cut in the beginning through him all things were made without him. When it talks about him it is and he is talking about the human. It is talking about him the man Christ Jesus, but he is the he is the son of the everlasting father. He is the Father. Because he says, I am the Father are one.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yes, yes, there are but one. So there's many
Reverend Ben Cooper:references where you can't separate you can't separate them. But you can only for a breath for a few moments. You can see them in now. Oh, gosh, I can't even word it because it makes me just want to get under the table because you can't actually word it, you know? Because when you look at him and his full deity, fully God is the Lamb without blemish. John said, Behold, the Lamb of God. But John knew him, John, no, John knew him. But then he said, Behold, the Lamb of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:And he said, Jesus said in John 1632, I am not alone from our father, he's with me. So he used to these is with the Father is Him and the Father of one. And he's asked to be fully sinless to go to the cross. Because if he'd committed sin, he began the cross to the cross for himself. Yeah, yeah. Because he had to be sinners to take Oh, wicked sins on him. Yes, like the fire was rough if he'd been sinning he'd be going to the cross for himself on me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The man, Christ Jesus lived for 33 years or there abouts whatever that was completely an absolute templated lived every way. See everything, witnessed everything, had every conversation under the sun. Everything was breaking out in his life, his family's life, his brothers, he had brothers. Jesus had brothers. Jesus had a earthly stepfather. You know, his mom and his dad, the Scripture says very clearly that Joseph was thinking about devotion or quietly. Yes, yeah. So there's a there's a family that he's in a family that is that there is tensions that that Joseph could have carried for how long could he have carried? What really what who is this Jesus? So
Simon Pinchbeck:So is that
Reverend Ben Cooper:COVID? Jesus just Is he my son? Because Mary where you've been?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, no, he's got all that going on. But when the story of Joseph isn't really told, it's not chopped out. And that really the Father the full story. The full story, Amir is not really told, either, because they have you mentioned that for years, they got to know him, right? They must have got the gnome. I mean, if you you know, she accepted that she was going to have this virgin birth, and it was going to be Christ. But what does that mean? She didn't go no idea what that meant. She was
Reverend Ben Cooper:a young 1516 year old girl even younger now
Simon Pinchbeck:idea what that meant for this child who imagine that you put into your care
Reverend Ben Cooper:until the God of all God clothes
Simon Pinchbeck:bought into your care.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And a man The Bible
Simon Pinchbeck:doesn't tell us anything about that. But it reveals something I think and I'm just thinking about is the very first miracle he performed, that we know he was
Reverend Ben Cooper:in Wetherspoons. Could have been he turned that bad lager, interstellar our tourists.
Simon Pinchbeck:But what they came to Mary didn't came to me, Mary said, speak to Jesus now. So she she's got
Reverend Ben Cooper:to know him. You've hit sign, right? You've hit st ever there. Right? So when you think about that, talk to Jesus. So there there is an extra biblical knowledge that has been kept from us. The only Joseph, his stepdad, his mum, Mary and Jesus, the connection that they then three had as a family unit. So for Mary to go on, I've just got asked my son, yes, she know, she knew she know, even though he hadn't done a miracle.
Simon Pinchbeck:But we know that we
Reverend Ben Cooper:know of as in the writings and writings because we understand what the scripture says. So for her for her to say, I have a word with him. She knew who he was.
Simon Pinchbeck:And she got to know was through that for years because as a young nobody, all she sees is a little baby. Is this you mentioned that is this a crisis is this Christ the Savior of the world born in a stable,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's been rejected. There's no room at the inn. We've been rejected so you don't know what you
Simon Pinchbeck:encounter once you kind of do what's going to happen. So they grown up she's looked after and nurtured and they've always grown together. They Josephus taught him the traders a carpenter, they've all grown but they know they know they know because she said on that wedding feast in Canaan, speak to Jesus
Reverend Ben Cooper:maiden when you when you think even even looking at Joseph even looking at his is his stepdad his earthly his earthly dad that took him under his roof what sort of reward did Joseph get in hip you when when you look at these this stuff that because the church always wants to spiritualize everything then it religion always wants to get a new latest song out when the there's so much in the Jesus story that makes me feel comfortable as a human being that that this family unit, this family unit, went for everything got stepfather is in a house of brothers. He's a tradesman. There must have been a time when our Photobucket shot at over Jesus. The roof leaking to St. Kenya now but but he didn't do he didn't do anything. He didn't do anything like that. Until he was cold and that colon and his ministry started but she noticed she this is this time. Yeah, this sooner. Yeah. So Joseph. The story of Joseph as the stepfather is almost it drops off the page jumps off the page. So for 30 odd years and 33 years, even up to the crucifixion where he's Joseph amongst To the because he said Joseph was a father. He was his father so he would have put and he would have instilled and installed into Jesus. Joe's his understanding of a father but first Joseph had in his hands the father of fathers.
Simon Pinchbeck:Matching. Oh, Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Get the bed now.
Simon Pinchbeck:Get off the iPhone. get
Reverend Ben Cooper:late. Come off. Get off. Leave it. I'll turn the internet off.
Simon Pinchbeck:But it's interesting. That's just Rory adjacent. Yeah, it's just interesting. dropped into me that wedding feast in Cana and the church I love you going that was his first miracle. And it just goes over it just goes over it. But there's so much in there. Because Mary is mother. She knew. Yeah, she knew. And all of a sudden and no one no one no Excel one know. Except.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Me. Exactly. Exactly. So no
Simon Pinchbeck:one there is a quiet thing. I didn't even go Tommy Cooper just like that. He just, he didn't do he didn't do a magic trick on if at night. He just did it quiet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He just did it quietly. So when you look at the story, gee, the Jesus story is this. He's titled this podcast. It doesn't go down the spiritual churchy road. Because it's always it's always spiritual. And it's always the kingdom because it's the king. It's doesn't go down the route that labor we don't need to go down a religious rope because there is all power, all authority in his story. And what fascinates me is Joseph, his Hadley, Joseph, Phil, when suddenly he sees this young man suddenly coming into this anointing and Colin had been crucified. Must My son My, the boy that I brought up the one that we sat on the rock at lunchtime, we shared a sandwich together, makes me want to cry. When Joseph Joseph watching and seeing his stepson that he looked after that he nurtured that he trained, they sharpen tools together, they spent time together, they add a bit of banter together, they laugh, they joked
Simon Pinchbeck:and done absolutely nothing wrong.
Reverend Ben Cooper:They've done nothing wrong. His son, because he was his son, because he was given he was given souvenirs placed in the care of of a mum and a dad. Because the weight on their shoulders
Simon Pinchbeck:the church wants to go from him being Jesus little baby. Yeah. to Jesus 33 done it is skips out all of it. Except for a bit about when there was when he was in the temple, but he skips through our all of that is skipped throughout those personal relationships
Reverend Ben Cooper:between the family, that family and his brothers, his brothers
Simon Pinchbeck:and his work
Reverend Ben Cooper:colleagues.
Simon Pinchbeck:It didn't didn't mention any of that, you know, the town, the village where they walk, because that's interested in it, because when he went back,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, the carpenter
Simon Pinchbeck:son, yeah, exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:A prophet is without honor, in his own his own terms. So they'll go I just looked at him. As as Isaiah says, In Isaiah 53, he grew up like attend to shoot out of dry ground, he had no beauty to attract us to him nothing in his appearance that we should desire. He was just a boy in their eyes. That's Jesus. That's the carpenter that he built my extension that a profit that profit is without honor in his own town what
Simon Pinchbeck:happened when he went back? And
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is the god this is created them. This is the God that that created our man, this is just too big. This is just enormous. This is just man
Simon Pinchbeck:I can't believe it. And that happens, you know, in in the world where people who had been a certain way, yeah, suddenly change and people don't believe
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. So you got a tradesman? Because they recognize him as the tradesmen as the son of of that unusual family. We're not quite sure where Jesus came from, but we've heard rumors around the village in the town that Jesus might not be what or what possibly Where is Joseph is the step so there's all this conversation like Joseph it might not have even looked like him. You know when you when you think and all this sort of stuff going on. So you've got this this you can call it a displaced family to the to the onlookers in
Simon Pinchbeck:but it's a guide it's grown up in that and before long people are going oh, that's Joseph son. And always a carpenter. Oh, yay, come on the fix my dad made a chair for us. He's a good guy. You know he's right. It's not bad is you know, we don't hear a bad word. It said about Jesus Do you know oh my god that's that's what it would have been. And then for him to go back and start doing miracles now they don't want that. They don't know we can't have that but he's too much for him. He's the carpenter. He's just blowing their minds.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's just done it. So this is this is interesting. Because real Colin's are on
Simon Pinchbeck:real people, real carnism real people, people that have been through, not manufactured,
Reverend Ben Cooper:not manufactured by the church. And because you've been brought up in a Christian household. You are a pastor because my dad's a pastor, you are a worship leader. Because my my dad's a leader, but you are. I'll tell you what will keep you in this little holy huddle. And we'll we'll put you in the pulpit, we'll put you in, we'll put you in the church office, you can work for the church, you can do this. We're naturally who are really who across the board of the UK who is really living a true Colin, many are called few are chosen. Not many anointed teachers, I'm afraid to say across the platform, the UK at this moment.
Simon Pinchbeck:They, yeah, they all want the anointing the night they all want
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. But you can want it all you want. Yeah. But there's only one. There's only well, because where did the gifts come from? The gifts are given, given by who by God by the deity by the power of the Holy Spirit. The gifts are given. But you can't go to a Bethel Oh, you teaching group and then suddenly at the end of 12 weeks, because you've paid five grand become a miracle was so
Simon Pinchbeck:great point. That's a great point. You can't suddenly become an evangelist, but
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't because a man has given you a certificate
Simon Pinchbeck:and soldiers and you're now going to give me five grand
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can be on the world says exactly what surgery and I'll make you bet a from Billy, give us a few. You can be anything you want to be in his world. And the church is doing exactly the same.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the deal is, we get the gifts from the Father fruit or some don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:we, so the gifts are given. Salvation is given. Everything is given. So when we talk about pastors and leaders and preachers, and teachers are the word, you are given a gift to deliver the gift, you can't be taught. There's no teaching. Now, there is a certain area of study and learning because Christ was in the temple, studying the scriptures. All of us as believers need to study the Scriptures. But then there is another layer where God uses and God takes the person and here anoints them. I think the hardest thing for anyone to do is to live in anointing when you can't operate in that anointing at the moment. Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, God gives you a vision of a drain. And it's not for now. And you got to get back on the sort of problem you got to get back in the trench.
Simon Pinchbeck:Mike, that's a great never do away with the Old Testament because the Isaiah just the one thing that he says in there he shapes as like an arrow that keeps us in the quiver till he's ready to use it. So so so they're
Reverend Ben Cooper:shaped, they're anointed, you are called you are chosen, you are ready in the eyes of God, and you are in the backpack, you're not ready to come out, ready to come out. And that's his bar. But the church is getting me out. And there's a problem
Simon Pinchbeck:with a lot of people that they don't want to wait. And I've seen it. I've seen it too often where people have been accelerated too quickly. Without having that firm foundation without having the 30 years, you know, years, it was so important that all cheetahs wanted the 30 years on its own. That was so important. I love that I love this podcast. We've expanded stuff that never thought. But but it's made us realize the story of Jesus. And really, if you're listening out there, and you you haven't grasped more of Jesus today, I think I don't know, you know, we might be you weren't listening fully to what we were saying, because I've learned a lot more about Jesus today
Reverend Ben Cooper:than the church has ever told us. And we ain't even we haven't even touched that. So we haven't really started come back to
Simon Pinchbeck:this next week. And I don't know we may even get across but at some point we will. We will get across
Reverend Ben Cooper:and don't you find this fascinating. One last little thing. Christ was a carpenter. What did he work with? Timber? Yeah. What did he go to a cross that was made out of cross that was made a timber? There is so much in the story of Jesus. Yeah, yeah. There is so much in the story of Jesus, fully God, fully man.
Simon Pinchbeck:But if you follow what we've been saying that day, and you you know, listen to this podcast a couple of times because Do you grasp what we're saying today? You'll have you'll you'll get nearer to Jason, you will have that more of a relationship with Him. And where will he lead you only to one place. And that's the Father.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Ben, then when you look at the father, who do you say, Jesus?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And we haven't even. We've got to do the father's story in a in a few weeks time. Yeah. And that is incredible, because that's a story that it's not really told too much. Is it
Reverend Ben Cooper:now because you've got the story of two fathers. I mean, yeah. What sort of, I guess about Rand God, there's so it's so much in the Father, the father's, the father, stepfather, Joseph, and the Father. So much in Jesus's story, it's been great. It's been really, you know, we pray wherever you are, is that we just look at Jesus, as Hebrews chapter 12 Verse two says, Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author of The perfecter of your faith, wherever you are today. Simon has brought a great title to the table, fueled and stirred by the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. You can catch us on many multiple platforms. You can find us on Amazon music, Apple play, Alexa, I Heart Radio, so many other platforms that are out there Buzzsprout Spotify, listen to these podcasts back and just type in the search engine#Christian straight talk. And if you need Simon, we've got the email address that's all out there for him on the website and all that sort of stuff. You can find us but you don't really need to search for us you need to find Jesus. Above all that is Jesus. Amen. God bless. Have a great day in the name of Jesus God bless. You can find us on Spotify